Egypt is the origin of Christianity, Judaism & Islam

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by HOBBIT

expecting someone to listen to something that long before posting is a bit ridiculous.

The theory goes against these religions origin stories and other tales. Moses was really a pharoh? Um..... what about Exodus?

Silliness

Listen, I posted it because I think it is interesting and important, especially to tolkienites. Tolkien studied egyptian language extensively, to the point that the numenorean language is based on it. Eg. Elendil's name like any numenorean name is spelled only with the constanants, LNL in feanorion characters of course. This is exactly how the egyptian names are written. Infact the whole story of numenore is very simular to that of egypt, but subsituting egypt with a land mass like similar to atlantis.

The similarities do not end there, numenorians were given their land as a reward and Earindils son was king, I believe after the flood the egypt was given to noahs discendants as a reward for being loyal to god.

It always seemed to me as a child that gods children where always punished and houseless, it just didn't make sense; I guest that's why I became an athiest, none of it made sense, now it does. Like someone wanted it to seem there is always hardship and pain when you follow god. Now I know that we are being lied to, they were rewarded with egypt not made slaves. They were not warlike yet the "corrupters" (you hear this term alot on the site) twisted everything making the egytptians pagan god worshippers and slavers; don't you think that the devil would do this if what I say is true. Morgoth spread lies so that those who should be allies would be enemies, turning brother against brother. He was even spreading lies about the valar to the eldar in the beggining so they would not trust them. Please think. Why would the devil want us to recognize egypt for what it is. The greatest trick he ever played is to convince the world he does not exist; that's why I am not an athiest anymore, I am completely aware of him and his designs now, and he can never hide from me again.

But I was hoping you guys would have examined the site instead of wine and complain and come to these conclusions youself (with a little help from me). Just take your time no rush.

[Elfhelm]

I'll reply on the conspiracy theory thread.
http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...8&postcount=22

[BeardofPants]

*sigh* I don't even know where to start with this bogwash. You know what? I won't even go there. I've read your posts with increasing amusement, because you seem to buy into every conspiracy theory that is being flung about. Lemme tell you something, as someone who has studied the Egyptian culture and language at university, whilst there will always be parallels, and certainly the Bible has drawn upon influences from places like Egypt, it is not the same thing. Jeebus christ on a crutch. Some people will believe anything.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

Listen, I posted it because I think it is interesting and important, especially to tolkienites. Tolkien studied egyptian language extensively, to the point that the numenorean language is based on it.

I don't remember reading about this. In one of the letters, he compares the Numenoreans to ancient Egypt, and gives the king an Egypt-ish crown, but I don't recall him saying A) that he studied ancient Coptic or any Egyptian language extensively or B) that the Numenorean language was based upon it. Source, please.

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

I don't remember reading about this. In one of the letters, he compares the Numenoreans to ancient Egypt, and gives the king an Egypt-ish crown, but I don't recall him saying A) that he studied ancient Coptic or any Egyptian language extensively or B) that the Numenorean language was based upon it. Source, please.

Well I know he studied history extensively weither officially at a academic institute or in his free time, I can't remeber the exact source. I have researched him extensively and have referenced many sources, I can't remember which nor do I have them at hand so I can't remeber exactly, see my Tolkien research paper thread in the writing workshop board. Many works cited there.

As for the comparison between numenore and egyptian writing, I made the discovery myself. Appendix to return of the king, he gives you the phonetic values of the feanorion letters and how the names were written. Just writing the constenants and not the vowels in names is exactly the way it is written by the egyptians, I sumised it could not be a coincidense, along with the simularities you yourself pointed out. That's why I think he studied egypt extensively, which makes sense for a linguist of his nature; he would not have been the first to be enamoured by the egyptian language.

So we have been going round and round without checking out the info and responding to it. I want to know how you feel about the links I posted. Frankly, if you don't want to participate, you do not have to. I don't respond to every posting if it doesn't hold my interest. Obviously I believe it, you do not have to. I don't get the responses here, you are not forced to participate. However you have chosen to do so without looking at the evidense, so to me it's like a personal attack. I know my views are different, but seriously if you will not look at the info why bother.

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

Y'know, Tele, this seems a little like trolling to me. You seem to be posting a preposterous theory that is designed to upset people and then taking the stance that it is true. Either you are having fun at our expense, or you are too gullible. If the latter, then you need us to tell you. If the former, then I hope you're happy.

I have Budge's translation of the Book of the Dead, and I have perused it. It's interesting, but it has nothing to do with this topic, except generally speaking, as it pertains to the evolution of religion. And the evolution of religion, onlong with the scriptures of the world religions, has been my primary interest for about 35 years. In general I avoid other people's interpretations because they all seem to have too much personally invested. I'll take my heiroglyphs straight, thanks.

Didn't mean to insult your intelligence there bud, but I did tell you, I could tell you did not check the info out. When I said that thing about nefertiti, it was my last attempt at getting you to look at it; I guess it didn't work.

Alas, I must admit I am passionate about my ideas and opinions friends, it all depended on you guys checkin the info out so you can express an opinion on it. I knew this was a longshot, but felt I could steel one with everyone nowadays having an ipod, maybe you could listen on the way to work or something. So, no hard feelings.

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

I'll reply on the conspiracy theory thread.
http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...8&postcount=22

My life experience is to always be open minded, try to learn different things and see things from someone else's point of view; especially if it is a challenge to do so. I don't want to find out that because of ego and stubbornness, I failed to learn something. Good eg. see my, "I am a writer" thread.

Imagine if I simply dismissed reading as some nurdy pass time, I now would be some idiotic dump jock with limited perception. I would never have discovered Tolkien, the hieghts of the Pelóri nor the subtle mind of Feanor.

Reading has changed my life, simply because on some wim of mine, I decided that if some bloody nurd could read a "whole entire book," so can I dammit.

Now I am open to many possibilities and ideas, and what I have found is after investigating it you would be surprised at what is true and what is not. So if no one has tried to listen to anything I have said, please, harken to this one thing, aspartame is poison; don't allow your kids nor yourself to consume diet drinks or anything that contains aspartame in it.

[Elfhelm]

Being open-minded, trying to learn different things, and seeing things from another person's point of view are all good ways to expand your knowledge. But there is one thing missing there. Objectivity. You do not have to believe someone else's point of view in order to see it. You do not have to move from "could be true" to "is a fact" to be open-minded. In fact, you can't learn different things if you believe anything anyone says.

So here's where I advise you to check out Francis Bacon. Yes, the classics again, and this one is a dead white guy. We call him the father of inductive reasoning. He says that investigating the possibilities, as you do, is only the first step. You might find that what you do with what you find is actually much more interesting. If you really intend to read a whole entire book, just like us nerds, then you should start with this guy.

[The Telcontarion]

If you really intend to read a whole entire book, just like us nerds,

I suppose I am a nerd myself and proud of it; you didn't read "I am a writer" did you. I suppose you can't be a writer without being one or am I just stereotyping myself.

Anyhoot, on to the operative issue:

No pleasure is comparable to the standing upon the vantage-ground of truth.

Virtue is like precious odours,—most fragrant when they are incensed or crushed.
Francis Bacon

In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, Brave, Hated and Scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs NOTHING to be a Patriot." - Mark Twain

It's not weither or not I have objectivity or not, that is irrelivant my friend. I speak my truth, you can choose to look at the info or not but you can't fault me for it, but I can fault you for attacking without taking a look at the info.

[HOBBIT]

it is important to look at things with an open mind. And I do love a good conspiracy theory. But some things I won't even believe

You don't have to believe everything you read. Especially things written on webpages with no credibility.

If all of it were as simple and obvious as that doctor guy says - why is he the only advocate of it? If there has been such a mistake in translating Egyptian hyroglyphs, why is he the only one who noticed?

Clearly, the guy is a crackpot.

[Elfhelm]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

I speak my truth...

You "truth" has not passed any test of reason. That means it's not a "truth", it's an opinion.

As I said before, I'll stick with my Budge regarding The Book of the Dead, and I won't waste time having Budge debated by this dilletante. If it turns out he's correct, that will have to trickle down to me. I don't know about anyone else, but with less than a thousand books left to read in my life, a writer has to do a lot more than this guy to get on my reading list.

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by HOBBIT

it is important to look at things with an open mind. And I do love a good conspiracy theory. But some things I won't even believe

You don't have to believe everything you read. Especially things written on webpages with no credibility.

If all of it were as simple and obvious as that doctor guy says - why is he the only advocate of it? If there has been such a mistake in translating Egyptian hyroglyphs, why is he the only one who noticed?

Clearly, the guy is a crackpot.

If you did read his site you would not ask any of these questions, becasue they are answered there. He has posted debates he has had with his fellow egyptologists and some agree with him. And not all things written on web pages have no credibility. I suggest you stop asking me why and go look at the info yourself because now you seem disengenious to me.

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

You "truth" has not passed any test of reason. That means it's not a "truth", it's an opinion.

As I said before, I'll stick with my Budge regarding The Book of the Dead, and I won't waste time having Budge debated by this dilletante. If it turns out he's correct, that will have to trickle down to me. I don't know about anyone else, but with less than a thousand books left to read in my life, a writer has to do a lot more than this guy to get on my reading list.

My truth, means my truth.

However all this off topic, if u are not going to look at the info....

[Elfhelm]

The correct translation of heiroglyphs is off topic!? Reasoning methods are off topic? Well, there you have it!

[Rosie Gamgee]

I have two to say. First, though, I will admit that I didn't read much in the link, and wasn't able to listen to the interview.

One; There is so much evidence to support what the Bible says it is rediculous. There is so much evidence that the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob really is God, and that His Son really is Jesus. And yet hoardes of people will flock to all these flash-in-the-pan 'anti-Christianity' cults: The DaVinci Code, this Egypt-thing (which I've heard before), and dozens of other half-baked theories. "Oh!! It's a new truth come down the pipe!! We have loop-hole! God has been lying to us the whole time; history was re-written by the Renaissance-folk; and here we, the deluded of the ages, are finally uncovering the real thing!" It's simply too rediculous.

Two: Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.

"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people..." (Matt 24:4-13)
Why am I even suprised this kind of stuff is happening, anyway?

[Elfhelm]

A good point, but he also says (Matt 24:34) "Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away before all these things have taken place." So it refers to the Jewish Rebellion that the Romans put down in, IIRC, about 72 AD?

But I think Matt 7:15-20 is more appropriate here:
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them.

You see, it is what Francis Bacon refers to. It calls for a measure of objectivity. You can't gather figs from a thistle. Just because someone told you the fig came from a thistle, doesn't mean it did!

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

A good point, but he also says (Matt 24:34) "Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away before all these things have taken place." So it refers to the Jewish Rebellion that the Romans put down in, IIRC, about 72 AD?

But I think Matt 7:15-20 is more appropriate here:
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them.

You see, it is what Francis Bacon refers to. It calls for a measure of objectivity. You can't gather figs from a thistle. Just because someone told you the fig came from a thistle, doesn't mean it did!

I think Elfhelm,ifm right in assuming you're making the Church out to be the thistle-promoter, that it the passage could point to all these gnostic/ whatever detractors of the church just as easily, Imo.

[Elfhelm]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

I think Elfhelm,ifm right in assuming you're making the Church out to be the thistle-promoter, that it the passage could point to all these gnostic/ whatever detractors of the church just as easily, Imo.

Not I. I am saying this "professor" is trying to tell us that figs come from a thistle. I am saying that Jesus is telling people to go ahead and use some common sense to tell if someone is a false prophet. Know them by their fruits. Common sense. See? Objectivity, in a way. It's OK. You're allowed to use a few logical tests! A hawk is not a handsaw.

But at the same time I disagree with Rosie using that passage in which Jesus clearly dates the events in the lifetime of his listeners. People often leave out that part of the quote and, like Dan Brown, leap over logic to say that Jesus was talking about our own times.

But the quote I showed is not dated, and it does pertain to all time.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

Not I. I am saying this "professor" is trying to tell us that figs come from a thistle. I am saying that Jesus is telling people to go ahead and use some common sense to tell if someone is a false prophet. Know them by their fruits. Common sense. See? Objectivity, in a way. It's OK. You're allowed to use a few logical tests! A hawk is not a handsaw.

In that case, I agree with you.

Here, let's high-five before we nose-dive...

*high-fives with Elfhelm*

[Elfhelm]

sorry, just edited it *chuckles at the missed high five*