Who do you think should be elected in 2008?

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

So many twisted truths in that speech, I don't know where to begin!

Lots of fear-mongering as well. He reminds me of Greg Stillson.

Thank the gods he's out, though I'm sure he'll return.

Yeah he'll be back. He's the next president after Barack or Hillary screwball the country (and world) for four years.

Again, 4 million to McCain's 4.7...that's hardly a crushing defeat, vote-wise. It also shows that the anti-McCain movement is more than just hyperbole. He's going to have a tough time getting back in the good graces of the Republican party.

[brownjenkins]

Once they remember that the general election is republican vs. democrat, they'll come running back.

Plus, the more important races will be congressional, so they'll be coming to the polls anyway.

[The Telcontarion]

This is what is going on people who want to vote for Ron Paul, even with Hillary and Barack; Barack is more popular but Hillary wins? This is too obvious.

And I notice none of you Mcain supporters (Hector) ddi not respond to my post about war and how it relates to the state of the economy, which proves why Mcain would destroy this country if he becomes president.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

And I notice none of you Mcain supporters (Hector) ddi not respond to my post about war and how it relates to the state of the economy, which proves why Mcain would destroy this country if he becomes president.

Hey, don't smear me, I was no McCain supporter

I'll vote for him of course...but my enthusiasm level is very low.

Hey Tel, I agree with you that war and economics are connected...I don't think anyone can disagree with that. I think Ron Paul has some important things to say about the economy...but when it comes to foreign policy, he's living in the 1800s. But let's be honest, he can't rally enough support to go anywhere anytime soon.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

Once they remember that the general election is republican vs. democrat, they'll come running back.

Plus, the more important races will be congressional, so they'll be coming to the polls anyway.

Yes they will. But there's a very important lesson here, never tick off the base while in the senate...

I've been listening to Michael Medved. He gets mad everytime someone suggests that McCain has been "sticking his finger in the eyes of conservatives". Going off the wall defending him and turning his non-conservative traits into flowerpots. Seriously now, if McCain "hasn't been that bad" over the years, then why do so many conservatives resent him? Heck, George Will called McCain a "Democrat". George Will is hardly your Rush Limbaugh striped conservative.

Medved has really lost his class act. Unbearably snide these days.

[hectorberlioz]

Edited

[The Telcontarion]

You seem to be just ignoring every comment or post I have made on this thread. He has raised more money from the people (not cooperations) than any other candidate; he has the grass root support.

I have been posting articles and vids that show he has been cheated over and over again, here is another vid to prove the election is being stolen.

What do you say to that, Hector. It does not matter that "he can't rally enough support," it's right vs wrong, not vote for the one I believe can win.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

You seem to be just ignoring every comment or post I have made on this thread. He has raised more money from the people (not cooperations) than any other candidate; he has the grass root support.

I have been posting articles and vids that show he has been cheated over and over again, here is another vid to prove the election is being stolen.

What do you say to that, Hector. It does not matter that "he can't rally enough support," it's right vs wrong, not vote for the one I believe can win.

He has a nice cache of support...but it is confined to colleges and a few other spots. For every Ron Paul supporter, there are ten people who think he's nuts. Whether it's true (that he's nuts) or not is beside the point

[hectorberlioz]

Edited

[GrayMouser]

Actually, I posted a reply to you, Telcontarian, even though I'm not a McCain supporter or a war supporter (or even American ) , but somehow it never showed up.

Anyway, the gist is that, even including Iraq/Afghanistan supplementals and other defense/intel spending scattered around the government, the total cost of all military spending is currently around 4% of GDP, compared to 14% during the Korean War, 9% during Vietnam and almost 40% during WWII.

While I agree with a lot of what you say about the abandonment of their Constitutional responsibilities by Congress- compliant Republicans and cowardly Democrats alike- the American Imperial Project is rather cheap as these things go.

[GrayMouser]

Mitt, principled conservative...

"do more for gay rights than Ted Kennedy...I feel all people should be allowed to participate in the Boy Scouts regardless of sexual orientation ".

"I believe that abortion should be safe and legal... I support Roe v.Wade... You will not see me waver on that."

"I was an independent during Reagan/Bush. I'm not trying to return to Reagan/Bush."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9IJUkYUbvI

2003: Romney refuses to endorse Bush tax cuts: “Shawn Feddeman, Romney’s spokeswoman, said the governor has neither endorsed nor opposed the tax cut plan because ‘it’s just not a state matter.’” (Wayne Washington, “Romney weighs in - carefully - on Bush tax cut plan, Governor won’t give his endorsement,” Boston Globe, 4/11/03)

2007: Romney criticizes other candidates for not supporting Bush tax cuts: “McCain opposed President Bush’s tax cuts, Romney noted. ‘I supported them,’ the former governor said.” (Lee Bandy, “Romney Targeting McCain,” The State, 2/4/07)

As has been said, when he ran in Massachusetts, he was a liberal because you have to be a liberal to win in Massachusetts.
When he decided to run for President, he became a conservative because you have to be a conservative to win a Republican nomination.
If he thought he had to be a pirate to win, he'd be walking around with an eye-patch and a parrot going "Aaargh, me hearties..."

“The real Romney is clearly an extraordinarily ambitious man with no perceivable political principle whatsoever. He is the most intellectually dishonest human being in the history of politics.”- Barney Frank.

That's why I supported him among all the Republican candidates, because he didn't actually believe a word of all that conservative nonsense he was spouting, and if elected would have governed as a center-right George H.W. Bush-type.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

Mitt, principled conservative...

"do more for gay rights than Ted Kennedy...I feel all people should be allowed to participate in the Boy Scouts regardless of sexual orientation ".

"I believe that abortion should be safe and legal... I support Roe v.Wade... You will not see me waver on that."

"I was an independent during Reagan/Bush. I'm not trying to return to Reagan/Bush."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9IJUkYUbvI




As has been said, when he ran in Massachusetts, he was a liberal because you have to be a liberal to win in Massachusetts.
When he decided to run for President, he became a conservative because you have to be a conservative to win a Republican nomination.
If he thought he had to be a pirate to win, he'd be walking around with an eye-patch and a parrot going "Aaargh, me hearties..."

“The real Romney is clearly an extraordinarily ambitious man with no perceivable political principle whatsoever. He is the most intellectually dishonest human being in the history of politics.”- Barney Frank.

That's why I supported him among all the Republican candidates, because he didn't actually believe a word of all that conservative nonsense he was spouting, and if elected would have governed as a center-right George H.W. Bush-type.

See, I disagree there. We've read memos and such from the George W Bush Whitehouse...they make it clear that they have NO respect for the people of faith who supported them, they were just fuel. But the political stances of the administration were opportunistic, too. An opportunist isn't a good person to have in that job.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Yes they will. But there's a very important lesson here, never tick off the base while in the senate...

I've been listening to Michael Medved. He gets mad everytime someone suggests that McCain has been "sticking his finger in the eyes of conservatives". Going off the wall defending him and turning his non-conservative traits into flowerpots. Seriously now, if McCain "hasn't been that bad" over the years, then why do so many conservatives resent him? Heck, George Will called McCain a "Democrat". George Will is hardly your Rush Limbaugh striped conservative.

Medved has really lost his class act. Unbearably snide these days.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that he is very pragmatic on the spending vs. taxation front. For the last eight years, Bush has lowered taxes on the rich, while at the same time allowing the republican congress (for most of his term) to vastly increase government spending, most of which goes right back into the rich individual's pockets through big business government contracts.

Basically, McCain represents true fiscal conservatism, trying to get the government back to the point where taxation equals expenditures, and trying to decrease overall debt. The concept of spending endlessly on credit, something both GWB and Reagan have in common, isn't conservative at all, except in the bizzaro world today's republican base lives in. And I think most true republican's know this in truth, they are simply doing what most people do, acting in their own self-interest. If you could pay less taxes, and have your business subsidised by the government, would you want that taken away?

McCain's more conservative, in the true meaning of the word, than most people who call themselves one. That scares them, especially since he is also very stubborn and independent-minded, so they don't like him.

[The Gaffer]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

The concept of spending endlessly on credit, something both GWB and Reagan have in common, isn't conservative at all, except in the bizzaro world today's republican base lives in.

Quite right. One of the many things that baffles me about your situation.

Nice graphic here:

http://www.headybrew.net/images/cont...or_surplus.gif

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

Actually, I posted a reply to you, Telcontarian, even though I'm not a McCain supporter or a war supporter (or even American ) , but somehow it never showed up.

Anyway, the gist is that, even including Iraq/Afghanistan supplementals and other defense/intel spending scattered around the government, the total cost of all military spending is currently around 4% of GDP, compared to 14% during the Korean War, 9% during Vietnam and almost 40% during WWII.

While I agree with a lot of what you say about the abandonment of their Constitutional responsibilities by Congress- compliant Republicans and cowardly Democrats alike- the American Imperial Project is rather cheap as these things go.

A quotr from an article:

--- "Budget Deficit" vs. "National Debt" ---

Suppose you want to spend more money this month than your income. This situation is called a "budget deficit". So you borrow. The amount you borrowed (and now owe) is called your debt. You have to pay interest on your debt. If next month you don't have enough money to cover your spending (another deficit), you must borrow some more, and you'll still have to pay the interest on the loan. If you have a deficit every month, you keep borrowing and your debt grows. Soon the interest payment on your loan is bigger than any other item in your budget. Eventually, all you can do is pay the interest payment, and you don't have any money left over for anything else. This situation is known as bankruptcy.

Each year since 1969, Congress has spent more money than its income. The Treasury Department has to borrow money to meet Congress's appropriations. The total borrowed is more than $8,000,000,000,000 and growing. Even when government officials claim to have a surplus, they still spend more than they get in. We pay interest on that huge debt.

The full aticle is here, the topic head being The National Debt is $9.2 Trillion!

Here is another article, a quote from it:

The $2.77 trillion budget plan emphasizes spending on the country’s fight against terrorism, while deeply cutting domestic programs. 141 domestic programs will be reduced.

The Agriculture Department is hit with the third-largest percentage decrease in spending of any department. Reductions would come from cuts to rural development, forest service, conservation and research programs.

If you think it's so cheap, suggesting it is not hurting th US economy and bankrupting the country then why is are businesses now accepting euros in manhattan; this is unheard of.

You speak as if it is all about the war it is not. This has been going on for sometime now and the war is just the straw, the economy will collapse. I have news for you though, it won't just be Us that will go down, it is going to be a global collapse.

And this Mcain thing again, staying Iraq for a hundred years is not conservative and going into Iran would be the end of your country.

[Nurvingiel]

Mitt Romney has suspended his campaign. Even though he holds onto his delegates until the party convention, I think this means he's finished. This leaves only Mike Huckabee and John McCain for the Republican nomination; Huckabee's only popular in the south-east, so I predict that McCain will easily coast to the nomination. McCain seems okay since he strikes me as being Republican-lite.

Meanwhile, Barack Obama and Hilary Clinton are neck and neck. Even after Super Tuesday there was no clearly defined leader. Very exciting. Personally I really like them both, so I'm just hoping one of them will beat McCain in the presidential elections. I think it's a shame that we can only choose one of them, and I hope the other selects him/her as his/her Vice President, if it comes to that.

Whoever wins though, will have an awful time cleaning up Bush's mess. As The Telcontorian mentioned, the USA has a 9.2 trillion dollar debt. It's such a vast number I have difficulty imagining it. I imagine that George "the internets" Bush has a hard time with this number too.

I got a little carried away and calculated that 9.2 trillion dollars could be used to buy enough Lamborghini Murciélagos to park end to end from Seattle, WA to Miami, FL 31 times. To see the full calculation, check out my post in the Teacup Cafe.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

McCain seems okay since he strikes me as being Republican-lite.

ALERT! ALERT!

[hectorberlioz]

This sums it up pretty well...

[hectorberlioz]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonath...eelection.html

Looks like Ron Paul is stepping out of the ring, to keep his seat in the House.

[The Telcontarion]

As Ron Paul himself says,

"This Revolution is permanent. It will not end at the Republican convention. It will not end in November. It will not end until we have won the great battle on which we have embarked."

Look even to the link to that article you posted about this issue Hector lad, you will see that in the comments section, everyone was for Dr. Ron Paul; this is not over and eventually we will win.

The wicked will be erased from the face of the earth:

Obadiah 1:18
"And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it."