Who do you think should be elected in 2008?

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Curufin

I've not seen Hillary speak in person, but I saw Obama in Louisville last February before he officially started his campaign. I agree with you 100% - listening to him speak is one of the most uplifting and hopeful experiences I've ever had.

I have nothing whatsoever against Hillary's platform. I agree with most of it. I'm just afraid that her insistence on continuing her campaign on such a dirty level is going to split the democratic party and cause problems in November.

Yeah, "split the Democratic Party' is a tough one, here. The super-delegates ARE a large part of the democratic party. What decides the general election may very well be who pulls more independent voters... and that's not what disputed primaries do well.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

And create so many more. . .

[Curufin]

Oh really? Elaborate.

EDIT: I'm off to the store, be back in a bit.

[hectorberlioz]

Hey all you new Mooters! Good to have new voices joining in the conversation.

Looks like Mitt will be joining McCain in Salt Lake City soon. Wonder what that means.

[Curufin]

Good to have new voices joining in the conversation.

Even if I am a liberal?

Are you thinking there's going to be a McCain/Romney ticket?

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Curufin

Even if I am a liberal?

Most of the mooters here are

Are you thinking there's going to be a McCain/Romney ticket?

It's possible. There's been a lot of backroom chatter (read: Karl Rove), but it seems like McCain is truly reluctant to the idea. I'm not sure it'll pan out in the end. I think he'll choose Tim Pawlenty, Michael Steele, or maybe even Condi.

But in any case, McCain needs Mitt while speaking in SLC. It isn't exactly McCain Country. For every vote McCain got, Mitt got 18. I think Mitt is there to quell the resentment.

[Curufin]

I think Condi would be a good choice for him. It would help with his 'I'm-just-another-old-white-guy' image.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Curufin

I think Condi would be a good choice for him. It would help with his 'I'm-just-another-old-white-guy' image.

I gotta catch you on this, Curufin. By implication aren't you saying that people ARE voting for Obama becuase he is black, and not "just another white guy"?

[Curufin]

I gotta catch you on this, Curufin. By implication aren't you saying that people ARE voting for Obama becuase he is black, and not "just another white guy"?

No, not really. That may be true for some people, but not for all (or even most). My point (and perhaps I should have taken more time and worded it better) was that McCain needs something fresh and new in his campaign. Obama is a breath of fresh air - not because of his race, but because of his energy and charisma. He's also young, attractive, and hasn't spent very much time in Washington.

Two old white guys are going to have trouble fighting that, and McCain is going to need an ace up his sleeve if he hopes to win in November.

Condi is also young, attractive, and new to elected office. She's also black and female, which, to some, are important characteristics.

That's federalism, for ya. How many things in this country are you planning to run from DC? All taxation? Education? Liquor laws?

SCA - as much as possible, if I had my choice.

Are you aware that one of the chief points of political debate among Democratic politicians right now is the fact that Obama shows better in states that will go R in the general election? Shouldn't that be a concern?

And that wouldn't be a problem at all if we got rid of the electoral college...

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Curufin

Yes, I know. But they're similar.

Similar feed no fish. If you want to amend party rules, you must join a party. If you want to amend the Constitution, get in line.

Good! The two party system is anti-democratic and stagnates discourse.

I disagree. I think our party system is remarkably open.

This doesn't happen now? When is the last time we saw a good "coalition" between Democrats and Republicans?

Every day, on something. What newspapers are you reading? Sure, there are lunatics on all sides of the political spectrum, but that's true under any system.

Not really. So many of the states are a sure thing that most candidates don't bother. My home state, Indiana, hadn't had any attention at all until the recent elections when everything was so close. We were going to go Republican and everyone knew it, so why waste the time?

Are you aware that one of the chief points of political debate among Democratic politicians right now is the fact that Obama shows better in states that will go R in the general election? Shouldn't that be a concern?

How is that fair? What ever happened to 'One man, one vote?'

That's federalism, for ya. How many things in this country are you planning to run from DC? All taxation? Education? Liquor laws?

Unification was necessary.

It might look that way to you, 200 years on and from an area that was all wild, at the time. You wouldn't have talked the delegates into it, then. That's like saying "Gee, the Martian colonies aren't provided for by our system."

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Hey all you new Mooters! Good to have new voices joining in the conversation.

Looks like Mitt will be joining McCain in Salt Lake City soon. Wonder what that means.

That the Mormon mafia still have a fair-haired boy.

Originally Posted by Curufin

Even if I am a liberal?
Are you thinking there's going to be a McCain/Romney ticket?

Someone will need to send them both a lot of Maalox.

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

I think Mitt is there to quell the resentment.

And he loves seeing himself on TV.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

That the Mormon mafia still have a fair-haired boy.

Wow...that sure sounds kinda...bigoted.

And he loves seeing himself on TV.

He can watch himself on TV and appear with McCain at the same time?

[hectorberlioz]

Where?

Sis, this better not be a by-a-hair postulation

[Curufin]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Where?

I wanted to make sure I covered everything.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...=2008803200355


http://www.prestigeacademycs.org/about.shtml

A single gender school for males of color. A public school.

[Curufin]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Oh sorry Curufin, I was just reiterating your question to Sis

This is interesting. You're in Ireland, but your vote will count in Indiana? How long have you been in the land of the shamrocks?

Since September. I go to University here, I'm working on my Master's Degree in Irish History and Politics. But I'm an American citizen, born and bred, from the sleepy river town of Madison, Indiana.

EDIT: SC&A - that doesn't sound good. I'll read up on it and let you know what I think later.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Curufin

Since September. I go to University here, I'm working on my Master's Degree in Irish History and Politics. But I'm an American citizen, born and bred, from the sleepy river town of Madison, Indiana.

Looks lovely.

As to the school, well, it's not a ringing endorsement of our current successes, that's for sure.

[hectorberlioz]

Oh sorry Curufin, I was just reiterating your question to Sis

This is interesting. You're in Ireland, but your vote will count in Indiana? How long have you been in the land of the shamrocks?

[BeardofPants]

Just as an aside, IMO, I think it's better if you can get away from the 2-party system. We've been operating under a system (MMP) for quite some time, and it's worked out really well (basically any party with over 5% of the vote gets a representative number of seats in parliament). What this means is that the larger parties are tempered by the smaller, and nothing can be passed unless they either have the majority seats, or if they have enough support from the smaller parties. Currently, the government is led by a minority-left wing. They don't have majority seats, but they have the support from the smaller parties (like the green party). It works.

[hectorberlioz]

The thing about minority parties though is---they represent a minority!

The two party system forces each party to be broad enough to include people like Giuliani (pro-choice) to Sam Brownback (very much pro-life). This goes for the Democrats as well, with pro-life Democrats (Bredesen) to the most crazed pro-choice (Justice Ginsberg).

The two-party system is good because it keeps the parties in the mainstream of America (Bill, Dole, Gore, Bush jr were all left-of center, right-of-center...not very far to either side).

I'm glad you folks brought this up, because I'm making the subject of me Persuasive Speech: Why the two-party system is good.

I'll update you guys as I go through my arguments

[Curufin]

The two-party system is good because it keeps the parties in the mainstream of America (Bill, Dole, Gore, Bush jr were all left-of center, right-of-center...not very far to either side).

While this is true to an extent, I think it's also somewhat stagnating. It's difficult for new ideas to get a voice. In a parliamentary PR system like BeardofPants suggested, these smaller parties would get a smaller voice (after all, PR is, suprisingly, proportional), but their voices would still be heard. And I think it's important to hear the crazy voices on the fringes. Maybe we shouldn't listen to them all the time, and they certainly shouldn't have control of the government, but it never hurts to listen to new and different ideas.