muslims PART 2

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by inked

Now, Lief, remember it is BJ you are conversing with. He really means that he wants to be able apply his societal value religiously so as to exclude anone not agnostic from the process of government so as to assure the implemetation of his views above and beyond all others because he is in harmony with the great societal more at the moment. He cannot realise that he needs to exclude the religiously anti-God on the same premise because that requires logic and understanding applied equally. So, having excluded properly the face and obverse sides of the coin we are left with the miniscule component of the side, or about 1-2 mm of surface, on which to role the government of the great unwashed. This coneptualization has a certain resonance with both Communism in theory and practice as well as Fascism and status-based social orders. It is the ever-popular, we know what is best and you will do it school of thought. It is equally employed by all sides. I guess you could say I'm agnostic about the statement when made by any other than myself!

No. I'm saying that all opinions should be expressed and considered respectfully without pigeon-holing a poster into a comfortable little stereotype so that you don't have to deal with the tough questions and the real issues.

And with respect in mind, that's all I'll say in response on this one.

[inked]

A kindlier, gentlier Islam....

http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...E2YmY4MDkxZTc=

"Subject: How to GENTLY impose Islamic rule on Society...a kinder, Gentler Islamo-fascism!

What is written on the white-board behind revolutionary guard commander Talaii (in larger black font)
a.. If you see women with thick lipstick, don't use a razor blade to slash their faces (as has been permissible and very much done by the disciplinary forces patrolling the cities), use Kleenex.
b.. If you see too much makeup on women's faces, don't spray their faces with acid (as has been permissible and very much done by the disciplinary forces patrolling the cities), use rosewater.
c.. If women are wearing too short of a dress, give them a free chador (veil).
d.. If their scarves is too short, don't use the slogan of: "yaa roo sari, yaa too sari" (which means "either wear a scarf, or get smacked on the head"...this has been one of the regime's most disgusting comments to Iranians women since the very early days of the revolution).
e.. Either cover their entire hair or gently cut their hair off.
The caption, in the bottom of the photo reads: The head of the police force of Tehran said: "The Irshad (guidance) Patrols should not treat people with an antagonistice approach."

This is their attempt at a kinder, gentler Mullacracy!"


But, not my problem since I don't live in Iran, you say........okay, Sweden?

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/175351.php


Sharia, Sharia, Sharia ... by any other name is ... Sharia

http://www.defenddemocracy.org/in_th...attrib_id=7378

[inked]

another viewpoint....

http://www.americanthinker.com/comme...mments_id=5044

very interesting in regards to numbers of Christian converts in Africa....

[brownjenkins]

At least there are some things in life you can count on.

[Rían]

wow, sad that people can't even pray in their own homes without worrying about being attacked

[inked]

How big is the Palestinian state to be in a two-state solution? Well, here's the Qatar answer:

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/060510/i.../080601mideast

Reckon they want fries with that?


edit:
Probably not, especially when they can have Denmark!
http://www.cphpost.dk/get/95528.html

[GreyMouser]

Originally Posted by inked

How big is the Palestinian state to be in a two-state solution? Well, here's the Qatar answer:

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/060510/i.../080601mideast

Reckon they want fries with that?


edit:
Probably not, especially when they can have Denmark!
http://www.cphpost.dk/get/95528.html

No, reckon they want the same as the Likudniks who want to expel the Palestinians from the West Bank- excuse me, "Judea and Samaria"

[inked]

Perhaps, then, GM, you can elucidate why none of the Arab countries controlling the area for centuries never made a Palestinian state. It (the Palestinian state) is an artificial construct as a political maneuver by arabs to regain what was lost fair and square. And, I seem to recall several abortive arabic tries at removing Israel - which is how the area came to be under Israeli control. You know, that old lose war, lose territory thing! Soi Hamas comes along to push Israel into the sea and gets elected. Hmmm, wonder what will happen if the chance should occur? History repeat again?

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

No law should exist that bans any particular person to run for any political office just because of their beliefs.

I'm glad to hear you think so . Sorry for misunderstanding!

[GreyMouser]

Originally Posted by inked

Perhaps, then, GM, you can elucidate why none of the Arab countries controlling the area for centuries never made a Palestinian state.

For the same reasons the Roman Empire never made a French state; the Holy Roman Empire never made a Dutch state, the Austro-Hungarian Empire never made a Czech state , and the Czar of all the Russians never made a Byelorussian state.

It (the Palestinian state) is an artificial construct

and Israel isn't? pre-1946 there were neither Israeli nor Palestinian nationalities.

as a political maneuver by arabs to regain what was lost fair and square.
And, I seem to recall several abortive arabic tries at removing Israel - which is how the area came to be under Israeli control. You know, that old lose war, lose territory thing!

Oh, like Poland or France against Germany?

Strangely enough, the people who lose a war "fair and square" and have their land stolen or occupied often attempt to reverse that, instead of simply accepting that might makes right.

Yes, the Arabs attempted to remove Israel, on the grounds that it was Arab land that had been taken as compensation for crimes committed by Germany.
Want to give the Jews reparations for the Holocaust? Give them Bavaria or Saxony- no argument from me.

Soi Hamas comes along to push Israel into the sea and gets elected. Hmmm, wonder what will happen if the chance should occur? History repeat again?

Which history is that? The Crusader states?

In the days of my idealistic youth, I believed that the solution was for a secular Palestine from the Jordan to the Mediterranean where Jews, Muslims and Christians could live together in peace.

Since that is impossible for the foreseeable future, the best available option is the two-state solution something along the lines of the Camp David accord (which Arafat was a conniving fool for rejecting).

[Lief Erikson]

Just an update. According to this article, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4965580.stm, religious freedom for minorities is fading in Malaysia.

[Spock]

May 19, 2006
Iran eyes badges for Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians
The dhimma is making a strong comeback in Iran. The idea that dhimmis must wear distinctive clothing so that they can be easily recognized as non-Muslims in Muslim societies goes back to the ninth-century caliph Al-Mutawwakil, and possibly earlier. Many Islamic apologists and politically correct historians would have us believe that such measures are a relic of history. They aren't.

"Iran eyes badges for Jews," from the National Post.

Human rights groups are raising alarms over a new law passed by the Iranian parliament that would require the country's Jews and Christians to wear coloured badges to identify them and other religious minorities as non-Muslims.
"This is reminiscent of the Holocaust," said Rabbi Marvin Hier, the dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles. "Iran is moving closer and closer to the ideology of the Nazis."


Hier is right, but as I explained above, this is not something that Iran is getting from the Nazis. This is part of the earliest Islamic laws of dhimmitude.

Iranian expatriates living in Canada yesterday confirmed reports that the Iranian parliament, called the Islamic Majlis, passed a law this week setting a dress code for all Iranians, requiring them to wear almost identical "standard Islamic garments."
The law, which must still be approved by Iran's "Supreme Guide" Ali Khamenehi before being put into effect, also establishes special insignia to be worn by non-Muslims.

Iran's roughly 25,000 Jews would have to sew a yellow strip of cloth on the front of their clothes, while Christians would wear red badges and Zoroastrians would be forced to wear blue cloth....


This color coding also has deep roots in Islamic tradition regarding the treatment of the dhimmis. Although the colors assigned to each group sometimes change, the idea of a distinctive badge worn by the dhimmis is virtually as old as the dhimma itself. You can find abundant confirmation of this in Bat Ye'or's books.

Ali Behroozian, an Iranian exile living in Toronto, said the law could come into force as early as next year.
It would make religious minorities immediately identifiable and allow Muslims to avoid contact with non-Muslims.

Mr. Behroozian said it will make life even more difficult for Iran's small pockets of Jewish, Christian and other religious minorities -- the country is overwhelmingly Shi'ite Muslim. "They have all been persecuted for a while, but these new dress rules are going to make things worse for them," he said.

The new law was drafted two years ago, but was stuck in the Iranian parliament until recently when it was revived at the behest of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

the different colors for the dhimmis in Muslim society are noted in the Arabian Nights Tales [1001 Nights], especially I believe, in the tale of the ensorcelled prince.

[GreyMouser]

Another Fraud on Iran: No Legislation on Dress of Religious Minorities

Maurice Motamed, the representative of the Iranian Jewish community in Iran's parliament, has strongly denied the rumors started by Canada's National Post that the Iranian legislature has passed a law requiring members of religious communities to wear identifying badges.

The report was also denied on Montreal radio by Meir Javedanfar, Middle East Analyst and the Director for the Middle East Economic and Political Analysis Company.

The National Post is owned by Conrad Black and is not a repository of expertise about Iran. it is typical of black psychological operations campaigns that they begin with a plant in an obscure newspaper that is then picked up by the mainstream press. Once the Jerusalem Post picks it up, then reporters can source it there, even though the Post has done no original reporting and has just depended on the National Post article, which is extremely vague in its own sourcing (to "human rights groups").

The actual legislation passed by the Iranian parliament regulates women's fashion, and urges the establishment of a national fashion house that would make Islamically appropriate clothing. There is a vogue for "Islamic chic" among many middle class Iranian women that involves, for instance, wearing expensive boots that cover the legs and so, it is argued, are permitted under Iranian law. The scruffy, puritanical Ahmadinejad and his backers among the hardliners in parliament are waging a new and probably doomed struggle against the young Iranian fashionistas. (The Khomeinists give the phrase "fashion police" a whole new meaning).

There is nothing in this legislation that prescribes a dress code or badges for Iranian religious minorities, and Maurice Motamed was present during its drafting and says nothing like that was even discussed.

http://www.juancole.com

Conrad Black is a right-wing (former) Canadian publisher currently desperately fighting fraud charges. He renounced Canadian citizenship so he could acquire British honours, now he's trying to regain it so he doesn't have to serve time in an American jail (of course, he was always praising the tough USA system and denouncing wimpish Canadian jails until it turned out he might have to serve some of that tough time) He bought the Jerusalem Post ansd turned it from a respected voice in the Middle-East into a Likudnik mouthpiece.

[GreyMouser]

Originally Posted by GreyMouser

http://www.juancole.com

Conrad Black is a right-wing (former) Canadian publisher currently desperately fighting fraud charges. He renounced Canadian citizenship so he could acquire British honours, now he's trying to regain it so he doesn't have to serve time in an American jail (of course, he was always praising the tough USA system and denouncing wimpish Canadian jails until it turned out he might have to serve some of that tough time) He bought the Jerusalem Post ansd turned it from a respected voice in the Middle-East into a Likudnik mouthpiece.

Ooops, always check first- as I should have recalled, Black sold the Post in 2003 to Israel Asper, another Canadian media baron who was also a strong supporter of Likud. Asper passed away shortly after buying the paper, but it is still run by his family who continue to support the Israeli right-wing.

Conrad Black also sold the Jerusalem Post, and it has shifted back to a more centrist position

The dress code issue is still bogus, however.

[The Gaffer]

Interesting. Thanks for that, GM. Good link, btw.

Isn't it funny how easy it is to whip up hysteria and how keen people are to believe it?

So, are we witnessing a demonisation prior to military intervention?

[inked]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...190424,00.html

Religion of peace. More likely piece. See what you think.

edit: just found this lovely female liberation sort of thing in Iran (liberate from life, that is)
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatc...ves/011511.php

[GreyMouser]

After 9/11 Saudi Arabia came under pressure to alter its hate-filled textbooks- books used not only at home, but also in the madrasses in other countries that the Saudis so generously fund to push their brand of fanatical Wahabbism

Saudi Arabia's public schools have long been cited for demonizing the West as well as Christians, Jews and other "unbelievers." But after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 -- in which 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis -- that was all supposed to change.

A 2004 Saudi royal study group recognized the need for reform after finding that the kingdom's religious studies curriculum "encourages violence toward others, and misguides the pupils into believing that in order to safeguard their own religion, they must violently repress and even physically eliminate the 'other.' " Since then, the Saudi government has claimed repeatedly that it has revised its educational texts.

Some samples of the new tolerance:

Eighth Grade
"As cited in Ibn Abbas: The apes are Jews, the people of the Sabbath; while the swine are the Christians, the infidels of the communion of Jesus."

"God told His Prophet, Muhammad, about the Jews, who learned from parts of God's book [the Torah and the Gospels] that God alone is worthy of worship. Despite this, they espouse falsehood through idol-worship, soothsaying, and sorcery. In doing so, they obey the devil. They prefer the people of falsehood to the people of the truth out of envy and hostility. This earns them condemnation and is a warning to us not to do as they did."

"They are the Jews, whom God has cursed and with whom He is so angry that He will never again be satisfied [with them]."

"Some of the people of the Sabbath were punished by being turned into apes and swine. Some of them were made to worship the devil, and not God, through consecration, sacrifice, prayer, appeals for help, and other types of worship. Some of the Jews worship the devil. Likewise, some members of this nation worship the devil, and not God."

"Activity: The student writes a composition on the danger of imitating the infidels."
......

TENTH GRADE
The 10th-grade text on jurisprudence teaches that life for non-Muslims (as well as women, and, by implication, slaves) is worth a fraction of that of a "free Muslim male." Blood money is retribution paid to the victim or the victim's heirs for murder or injury:

"Blood money for a free infidel. [Its quantity] is half of the blood money for a male Muslim, whether or not he is 'of the book' or not 'of the book' (such as a pagan, Zoroastrian, etc.).

"Blood money for a woman: Half of the blood money for a man, in accordance with his religion. The blood money for a Muslim woman is half of the blood money for a male Muslim, and the blood money for an infidel woman is half of the blood money for a male infidel."
ELEVENTH GRADE

"The greeting 'Peace be upon you' is specifically for believers. It cannot be said to others."

"If one comes to a place where there is a mixture of Muslims and infidels, one should offer a greeting intended for the Muslims."

"Do not yield to them [Christians and Jews] on a narrow road out of honor and respect."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...901769_pf.html

[Rían]

from inked's second link:

At January 3, 2006, Nazanin was sentenced to death for murder by a criminal court. The Court of Appeal will review her sentence, and if upheld there, it must be confirmed by the Supreme Court, before she can be executed.
According to the Iranian daily Etemaad, then 17-year-old Nazanin and her niece had been spending some time in a park west of Tehran with their boyfriends, when three men started harassing them.
The girls` boyfriends fled from the scene, leaving them helpless behind. The men pushed Nazanin and her niece down on the ground and tried to rape them, and to protect herself, she took out a knife from her pocket and stabbed one of the men in the hand.

The girls tried to escape, but the men overtook them, and at this point, Nazanin stabbed one of the other men in the chest, which eventually killed him. According to the newspaper, she broke down in tears when she told the court: "I wanted to defend myself and my niece. I did not want to kill that boy. At the heat of the moment I did not know what to do because no one came to our help." Nevertheless, the court sentenced her to death by hanging.

In a western country Nazanin would probably be acquitted or at most receive a short prison sentence, as she obviously acted in self-defense. Furthermore, since she was only 17 years old, she would be treated as a minor. In Iran however, the minimum age for the death penalty is 15 years for males, and 9, yes nine years for females. Although there is no record of girls that young being executed, the fact that the law opens for this speaks clearly about what kind regime Iran is.

Another point worth noticing, is that if Nazanin had let the men rape her, she could in the worst case have been arrested for extra-martial sex, which carries a maximum penalty of 100 lashes.

I was reading some of the comments afterwards, and one person noted that as a small bit of good, at least she wasn't raped. Then another person said that that wouldn't be the case for long, because her jailors will muta'a marry her and then rape her. I looked up muta (or muta'a) marriage and sure enough, it sounds like this could very well happen Here's a link from USAToday on muta (or "pleasure" marriage: http://www.usatoday.com/printedition...iage05.art.htm Interesting concept, to say the least, and I can see how jailors would abuse it.

[GreyMouser]

And if she had been raped, brought charges, and been unable to produce four male witnesses on her side, then she could have been put to death for engaging in illicit sex.

[hectorberlioz]

Hmm....still a lot of turmoil in this case, but I think the truth is going to come out soon. IMO, she's falsely accusing. She may have been so traumatised from part I that she was desperate to...I don't know .

I don't want to hold any definite ideas about the case, because I'm all for getting the criminals, but on the other hand, she has a history...