Muslims

[Percy Weasley]

I do not care who stops, as long as somebody does.

I believe I used the Israelis as an example because you ask me if I would just tell them to lay down their arms.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Percy Weasley
I do not care who stops, as long as somebody does.

I believe I used the Israelis as an example because you ask me if I would just tell them to lay down their arms.

Wel I think Israel has demonstrated time and time again that they want peace - and have no desire to destroy the palestinians. I think it is time for the palestinians to do the same and come forward - and speak out against the bombings.

Arafat is a KNOWN terrorist and he rules the Palestinian government. maybe when he dies - someone who desires peace and can work with israel will come forward. I don't know who is waiting in the wings. But with Arafat's suspected heart attack and his look of fraility last week - I'm wondering if he really has much more time to live. It may take the death of Arafat BY NATURAL means - to bring about peace.

[Falagar]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Arafat is a KNOWN terrorist and he rules the Palestinian government. maybe when he dies - someone who desires peace and can work with israel will come forward. I don't know who is waiting in the wings. But with Arafat's suspected heart attack and his look of fraility last week - I'm wondering if he really has much more time to live. It may take the death of Arafat BY NATURAL means - to bring about peace.

Sharon has a bad reccord as well, though not as bad as Arafat.

We'll have to see if Arafat's death will bring peace, though I doubt it.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Falagar
Sharon has a bad reccord as well, though not as bad as Arafat.

I agree Sharon has a bad record - but as you pointed out - not as bad. Sharon has also taken action against the settlements - something he once supported. People in his own party have been against his stand regarding the settlements.

We'll have to see if Arafat's death will bring peace, though I doubt it.

It may not. It may make things worse - depending on who is there. There is one thing perfectly clear though - there is no dealing with Arafat.

[HOBBIT]

Israel laying down it's arms - what a stupid idea.

[Percy Weasley]

What a thought-provoking post.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Percy Weasley
...
Secondly, yes, I do believe that the bombings would stop, it would just take patience. It might not happen in a week, even a month, or even a year, but it would happen. Why? Because Palestine would be forced by international pressure to stop. The Arab world would be furious because Israel's refusal to respond to the attacks would give them the moral high ground in the eyes of the world as long as the Palestinians continued with the violence. The Western world would be furious at the Palestinians for attacking a peaceful state. Even those countries refusing to take sides right now would be forced to condemn the actions of a state that attacks an innocent victim. But it would take patience, and likely a great deal of it. Lives would be lost, yes, but no more (likely less) than would be lost if this war continues ad infinitum as it seems to be headed now.

It is time for someone to do something different. It is sad to see that neither side is brave enough to break the cycle of violence.

Holy $*!t! You must be kidding! How many would have to die before the world took pity on Israel!? What would be an acceptable number for casualties? How long would it take before the Palestinian murderers killed a quarter of the Israeli population? Or more?

Would you do the same? If a group of people had a problem with your country, and they sent terrorists to murder your family, friends and neighbors, would you stand by and do nothing for months or even years while this went on? I would not, I could not!!! I would do whatever it took to end the violence! Even if it meant bull dozing homes to find the cockroaches that scurry into the cracks after they've murdered innocent men, women and children. Because that's what they are: murderers! They are not soldiers, they are not freedom fighters, they are not warriors with a righteous cause.

Does the world have a responsibility to step in? To help end this conflict? Why haven't the other muslim nations nearby given land to the Palestinians? Are they not their brethren? Are they not concerned for their plight? It doesn't look like it from where I sit.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by azalea
(This thread keeps going way off topic, so I'll just add my own off topic thoughts to the post ).

I'm not familiar with Isreal's governmental structure, but do they have a Senate like ours? I mean, couldn't they somehow appoint a few Palestinians to posts in their gov., so that they'd have a voice there that could take comments from "the people" and then translate that into legislation that would allow the peace process to move forward? And in the meantime, the Isrealis could continue to keep the hammer down on potential terrorism, but there could be some system in place that would allow direct dialog that would actually move everything in a positive direction?

There are about 12 from 120 arabs in the parliment(sp.)(it is called kneset in hebrew).
There is no Senate - if you want to make a rule, you have to ask from a chosen member in the parlement to suggest it.
But the parlement is not the one who makes descisions as attacking the palestinians. The goverment - which has to have more then 61 of the parlement members.
I don't exactly know what the prime minister's power is, but he cannot decide to attack the palestinians alone. There is a commission in most of the subjects (money, security, enviorment (sp,), etc.).
I don't what you do in a Senate, so I can't tell you what replaces it in here. You can always go to the supreme court - but it's just in cases that the goverment breaks one of the laws.
The palestinians can't, actually, vote or tell the court, since they aren't citizens of Israel.
This is the site of the kneset.

[Percy Weasley]

Ruinel,

I respect your opinions, and your right to have them, but I cannot respond to such an emotional post. I do not wish to start a flame war by getting into a debate that is sure to be firey and livid. My opinions have been stated in my previous posts, and if you disagree, that is your right.

[HOBBIT]

Originally posted by Percy Weasley


What a thought-provoking post.

Don't be such as smartass.

At least my posts aren't devoid of thought like others in here....

Your ideas are very idealistic and would only work in a Utopia. This is the real world.

My points have already been stated and discussed in great detail by members such as JD, Runiel, and Rad.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Percy Weasley
Ruinel,

I respect your opinions, and your right to have them, but I cannot respond to such an emotional post. I do not wish to start a flame war by getting into a debate that is sure to be firey and livid. My opinions have been stated in my previous posts, and if you disagree, that is your right.

I guess you read my sig then. Wise move.

However, it is not an "emotional post". These "terrorists" are nothing more than murderers. There is nothing glorious in what they do. If you want to address my post, go ahead. Just be more thoughtful in what you say. Don't just crap out a bunch of bull $*!t and expect someone not to say something. You need to take a step back and look at the whole picture. All you are looking at is the deaths of people you don't even know, and for you, that's perfectly acceptable (it seems). It's an extremely callous thing to say.

[Percy Weasley]

If you are trying to make me angry by your ad hominem attacks, it is not going to work.

I have done nothing to you personally, I have not insulted your position. I was simply rather offended in the way you berated my posts, and treated me like a fool because you happen to disagree with me. Very mature.

[Percy Weasley]

Runiel,

I am truly sorry that I am coming across that way - it is not my intention. I am far from being a callous person. However, to say that I am not looking at the big picture is, I believe, is a complete fallacy.

Israel has suffered a great deal in this crisis. I do not even attempt to deny this fact. However, if you are going to look at the complete picture, you have to agree that the Palestinians have suffered also! I am not looking at what is best for Israel alone, but what is best for all humanity. Everyone involved, Israelis and Palestinians alike are human beings.

You say that you would not sit back and do nothing as people attacked your country. What would you do? Hit them back, harder, meaner, bloodier? Honestly, what would that do? It would escalate the fight. It could not possibly lead to peace. It would only increase the anger in the other person and cause them to hit you harder the next time. Violence is an upward spiraling circle, and only when someone refuses to hit back will that circle be broken.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Percy Weasley
You say that you would not sit back and do nothing as people attacked your country. What would you do? Hit them back, harder, meaner, bloodier?

Well if israel was going to do that - then they would be bombing the schools and markets of the palestinians. Which they are not. They are after the terrorists - whereas the terrorists are after the innocent civilians of Israel.

Honestly, what would that do?

I would attempt to get the terrorists responsible and set up road blocks to check people coming into the country - just like israel does.

There was a Palestinian woman who was intervierwed - she stated that the check blocks were a vform aof terrorism against palestinians and that that alone was reason enough to continue attacking Israeli citizens. The checkpoints are a DEFENSIVE measure to stop the bombers from getting in.

[Percy Weasley]

I would attempt to get the terrorists responsible and set up road blocks to check people coming into the country - just like israel does

Which has gotten us nowhere, and stopped nothing. Killing the terrorists is like giving someone an aspirin for a broken leg - simply an attempt to mask the symptoms of a much deeper problem.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Percy Weasley
If you are trying to make me angry by your ad hominem attacks, it is not going to work.

I have done nothing to you personally, I have not insulted your position. I was simply rather offended in the way you berated my posts, and treated me like a fool because you happen to disagree with me. Very mature.

I am not trying to make you angry. And I have not questioned your motives at all. It is you who have left reason at the door. If you are becoming angry, it might be because what I said put a mirror to your face and you do not like what you see.

Have I attacked you? No, I haven't. Trust me when I say, you'd know it if I had. I simply find your post to be shallow, callus, and without thought. Take some advice, before you post something so ridiculous as to suggest that a country not take legal action against the criminal perpetrators of these murders nor protect their citizens against further brutality just to gain a little "sympathy" from the rest of the world, that you think twice.

[HOBBIT]

I think that post was in response to my post, not yours, Runiel.

[Percy Weasley]

Runiel

That post was not addressed to you, but to Hobbit. I am sorry for the confusion. I have not accused you of attacking me, nor do I think you have.

Neither have I ever said that Israel should not take legal action against the Palestinians. Legal action and military action are two completely seperate things.

I fear I have myself in over my head here - I did not mean to inadverdently offend you.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Percy Weasley
Which has gotten us nowhere, and stopped nothing. Killing the terrorists is like giving someone an aspirin for a broken leg - simply an attempt to mask the symptoms of a much deeper problem.

Well then let's just invite them in then. Come on over - it's israeli hunting season. We can issue Israeli Hunting licenses to the terrorists - this will enable you to kill one pregnant woman, 5 children, 3 women and 3 men. Maybe part of the deal can be that they have to give 24 hour notice on their attacks. or maybe we can set up israelis and just ask them to be terrorist fodder.

I'm just curious as to what you think the results will be if Israel stops responding? The terrorists have repeatedly STATED that they want the elimination of Israel - nothing less will suffice.

[Percy Weasley]

This thread has most definitely reached an impasse.

I do not think I should respond again until the tempers that have flared have cooled.