05-03-2006, 05:02 PM | #221 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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05-03-2006, 06:51 PM | #222 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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All right. Is a worldview which holds human life to be of no value, or human rights to be nonexistent, equal than one more in accordance with modern views? They are indeed free to worship as they wish (within limits). But the fact that they are free to believe what the wish, or worship as they wish, does not mean it is right to do so.
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05-03-2006, 06:53 PM | #223 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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05-03-2006, 07:05 PM | #224 |
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
05-04-2006, 10:10 AM | #225 | |
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I don't think (miracles aside) that there is any realistic possibility of converting enough Muslims in any reasonable amount of time to make any diference in the War on Terror, and I base that on the observation that no large group of any of the major modern religions has been converted to any of the others. |
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05-04-2006, 10:35 AM | #226 | |
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05-04-2006, 10:44 AM | #227 | |
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It is very easy to take a moral stance on something which effects you positively or not at all. It's much harder to take one on an issue that may work against you. As such, most people tend to shape their belief systems in ways that reflect the way they feel about real world issues. This is why there are so many different varieties of christians or muslims in the world. In the end, people may hold all kinds of religious beliefs close to their hearts, but the tend to act very "secular" on the important issues.
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05-04-2006, 10:56 AM | #228 | |
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05-04-2006, 02:15 PM | #229 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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05-04-2006, 02:20 PM | #230 | ||
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You're right that it's easy to take a moral stance on something which does not affect you. But to then say that people shape their belief systems i ways that reflect the way they feel about real world issues does not in any way follow. That's not why there are so many different varieties of Christians or Muslims in the world; but that's a different topic. Quote:
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05-04-2006, 02:22 PM | #231 |
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Democracy isn't morality. It's a system, and often times it doesn't work.
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05-04-2006, 02:35 PM | #232 | |
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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05-04-2006, 02:40 PM | #233 | |
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05-04-2006, 03:03 PM | #234 | |
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05-04-2006, 03:05 PM | #235 | |
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05-04-2006, 03:06 PM | #236 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Then, in a non-democratic society, there is no right or wrong? There was no such thing as morality in, say, medieval Germany?
What is your reason for saying that democracy is the standard of right and wrong?
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05-04-2006, 03:15 PM | #237 |
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I think BJenkins, that you mistake common sense and courtesy or anything else collective, for democracy.
Say, in an african tribe back when, laziness is looked down on...democracy because people decided it was bad? or because laziness didn't achieve anything except laziness? Even just "collective efforts" aren't necessarily "Democracy", though they may be democratic... Monarchs may well have worked with their chamberleins and viceroys etc...it was collective, but it wasn't democracy...at least not on the scale that the Greeks expositioned.
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05-04-2006, 03:23 PM | #238 | |
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As I mentioned elsewhere, one could argue that the best form of government is an enlightened monarchy. But even the best monarch dies one day, and there is no way to assure that his successor will be as enlightened. A similar problem exists via rule by the monarchy of "scripture". It may set down strict guidelines, but since the monarch himself (god) is unavailable for clairification, the clerics of any given faith essentially become the regents of that monarchy and determine interpretation. Once again putting the power of right and wrong in the hands of the few.
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05-04-2006, 03:33 PM | #239 | |||
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When he killed his friend in a drunken rage, Alexander slaughtered the inhabitants of a city as a sacrifice to the dead man's ghost. Since he had the power to enforce this, was it right? Quote:
Secondly, it seems to run counter to what you said before. If "Right and wrong is determined by the people with the power to enforce it", then how is it possible that "what is best for the society as a whole is best decided" by any one in particular? It seems that, if the one with power determine right or wrong, it does not matter if it is a monarchy, an oligarchy, or a democracy. Quote:
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05-04-2006, 04:24 PM | #240 | |||
Advocatus Diaboli
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Might does make right. It always has and always will. What has changed is that over time societies have come to realize that to sustain themselves they have to balance personal desires with those of the people at large. Quote:
Simply put: The more people with a voice as to the morality of a given society, the more equitable the morality becomes. This leads to a generally peaceful populace, which is good for everyone, even those who hold the power. Quote:
And an absent monarch that hasn't written in 2000 years leaves a lot to interpretation.
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