09-05-2007, 08:27 PM | #201 | |||
Elf Lord
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There may be some errors, as you say, but in my view it's much easier to go wrong when you're going on human understanding than it is when you are listening to and applying God's understanding. Quote:
Besides, that's a ridiculously broad generalization when applied to all religious writers. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 09-05-2007 at 08:31 PM. |
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09-06-2007, 04:19 AM | #202 | |||
Elf Lady
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09-06-2007, 05:15 AM | #203 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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Then again, we're getting definitely side-tracked into religion-debate here, let's take it over to the theology thread.
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09-06-2007, 05:47 AM | #204 |
Elf Lady
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Yes I know, sorry
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Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply.
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09-06-2007, 12:40 PM | #205 |
Elf Lord
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I'm responding in the Theology Thread.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
09-07-2007, 02:58 AM | #206 | |
Elf Lord
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Sri Lanka (known to the west as Ceylon) was colonised by the Portuguese, who fiercely suppressed the Buddhists and "encouraged" conversion to Catholicism. Many lowland Sri Lankans converted, while the inland highlands fought for independence. The Portuguese were followed by the Dutch, who, while still favouring Protestants, reserved the fiercest persecution for the Catholic converts. After the British took over, many Catholics reverted back to Buddhism, but various Christian denominations established schools and a small number converted to Christianity. The Brits also had to fight to subdue the kingdom of Kandy. Buddhism in Sri Lanka thus came to be identified with Sri Lankan nationalism and independence, with the result that other groups, particularly the Tamils, were oppressed, leading to the current war (it was the Tamil Tigers, incidentally, who first developed the art of the suicide bomber). Buddhism in Sri Lanka has thus become quite militant- the Buddhist clergy are the most opposed to peace agreements being negotiated, and their militance has extended to Christians. There's a common development in many Third World countries- Western Evangelicals (largely American) come in offering food, education, and opportunities for advancement for converts, and the local religious/nationalist establishments are antagonised- the Saudi Wahabbists do the same thing, pushing their more extremist brand of Islam. Currently some Buddhists in Sri Lanka are trying to push laws restricting or, the extreme version, even forbidding conversions. Unlike Lief, however, they don't actually propose to ban other religions from their country. 70% Buddhist, 7% Hindu, 7% Muslim, 6% Christian, 10% (perhaps wisely) don't say.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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09-07-2007, 06:14 AM | #207 |
Elf Lady
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I see. Thanks for the info.
All you hear in the news is that the Tamil tigers are at it again, but you don't really get much background. And I must admit that I don't really watch the news or read it if I can help it, so off course it's my own fault.
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Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply.
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09-07-2007, 08:54 AM | #208 | |
Elf Lord
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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09-07-2007, 09:05 AM | #209 |
Elf Lord
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And I've decided that people like Lief can't hold office in my country- call it the Weimar or Algerian clause.*
Everyone who is elected to an official position has to take an oath that they do not believe in restricting the rights of their fellow citizens- you can't run on a platform of making Jews, blacks, women or any other group second-class citizens. Weimar, because the Nazis took power by democratic means with the intent of destroying democracy; Algeria, because the Islamic Salvation Front won an election but there were doubts about their commitment to democracy- the old "One Man, One Vote- Once" that has plagued countries that have elections without having developed a culture of liberal democratic traditions.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
09-07-2007, 10:36 AM | #210 | |
Elf Lord
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What about the restriction of the rights of children in your country too? They don't have voting rights and only get the right to drive or have sex after a certain age. They're a group that's discriminated against on biological grounds. One thing about your proposition that confuses me is what "restricting of rights" means. Does that mean that any freedoms anyone has right now cannot be restricted on no matter what? So martial law is banned? Any move the government might take to counter terrorism that encroaches on anyone's rights at all is automatically banned? I'm curious about some more of the cases aside from me that this would apply in .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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09-08-2007, 01:47 PM | #211 | |
Elf Lady
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Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply.
...The Earth laughs in flowers ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Hamatreya"... |
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09-09-2007, 06:17 AM | #212 | ||||
Elf Lord
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Let's see: 1)Jews cannot marry whomever they wish. 2)Blacks cannot marry whomever they wish. 3)Homosexuals cannot marry whomever they wish. 4)Minors cannot marry whomever they wish. Nope, gays fall in with groups 1 and 2, not 4- they're responsible adults, so yea, no to opponents of gay marriage. Of course, you can run for and accept office while saying that you disagree with gay marriage and you won't recognise it in your personal or religious life, but you still have to take the pledge not to try and strip that right away from homosexuals. Quote:
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For example, neither the various restrictions imposed due to the War on Terror, or the War Measures Act in Canada during the FLQ crisis in 1970 would pass the test. Quote:
Seriously though, these problems often arise in cultures which transition to democracy without having a background of tolerance- even look how long it took to get Catholic Emancipation passed in Britain. BTW, I should make it clear that I personally would not want to liveoin my island- I'd much rather live in BoP's - what I'm trying to do is create a sort of (non-religious based ) Society of Virtue, like the ideal of the Greek city-states ,the Roman Republic, or indeed the America envisioned by Jefferson. I'm far too decadent to be a good citizen of my own country.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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09-09-2007, 04:00 PM | #213 | |||||
Elf Lord
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I completely agree with your having laws that do those things. I try to arrange my laws to properly do the same. Quote:
This stings some of course, but it's necessary for some people to feel a sting of that kind in order that the country may be better off. And people's implementing a false ideology's perspective in law is something that definitely should be prevented, for the consequences will only be harmful. Quote:
The biggest problem I have with your view may be that you don't seem to have a solid standard as to what the rights of humanity are that must not be restricted. The standard presently seems to be your own belief system which is based upon your interpretation of the available evidence. Yet other belief systems might actually be more correct interpretations of the available evidence. So how do you know what to ban and what not to ban?
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 09-09-2007 at 04:08 PM. |
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09-09-2007, 08:15 PM | #214 | |||
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No taxation without representation! And as I expect everyone to pay sales tax, that means a five year old who buys a pack of gum deserves the right to vote as well. Would you consider implementing this new voting age in your country?
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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09-10-2007, 01:22 AM | #215 | |
the Shrike
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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09-15-2007, 12:11 PM | #216 | |
Elf Lord
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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09-15-2007, 12:30 PM | #217 | |
Elf Lord
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Wait! My youngest is just going to turn twelve, and his brothers are 13 and 14- and they don't even get to decide how late they can stay up or what TV shows they can watch. Sorry, NO WAY! Come to think of it, there's something to be said for allowing one to have proxy votes for your children- you've invested in the future, and you're making decisions they'll have to live with- like no more polar bears (OK kids, Daddy's sorry he had that '69 396 Firebird that got two miles to the gallon)
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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09-15-2007, 12:44 PM | #218 | |
Elf Lord
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He basically does what we've been doing here- you get to make up any society you want, but then he introduces the idea of the Veil of Ignorance. You will be assigned totally at random to any position in your society, without prior knowledge of your race, sex, religion, social position or your own intelligence, talents or personality. So, if you design a Nazi state- hey, you might be a Jew or Slav. If you set up a Communist state, you might be born with that prickly individualism that winds you up in a labour camp. Or, in your case, you have a greater than 50% chance of ending up a member of a group with inferior rights, without a voice in how your life is run.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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09-15-2007, 01:08 PM | #219 |
Elf Lady
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That sounds very interesting! I should read that.
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Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply.
...The Earth laughs in flowers ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Hamatreya"... |
09-15-2007, 05:44 PM | #220 | ||||
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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