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#1 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 102
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Which is how the Iraqis feel, as well, which puts things into a pretty clear perspective, if you ask me. If there's anyone I think we should listen to in these matters, it's the Iraqi people themselves and our brave men and women fighting in Iraq, who from what I've heard don't think we should be there either and still feel they are owed an explanation for why they're there in the first place. Instead we're trusting the word of a president whose word 70% of Americans feel they can no longer trust.
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#2 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
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The French colonized Vietnam in the 1800s, as they were wont to do. In the Forties, Japan drove the French out and (in conjunction with Nazi Germany) installed the French (read: puppet) Vichy Government. After WWII, the French wanted to take over again, but the Vietnamese didnt want them back. Voila, the Geneva Accords.
Yes, I did do my homework on Diem. We installed him (Eisenhower did), and dumped him (JFK). The South Vietnamese were dissatisfied with Diem, and Kennedy sensed that. True enough (about Vietnam and Iraq), but your implication is that "therefore" we shouldn't try, we should just let whomever else do it, even if they are communists and enemies.
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#3 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
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Now what I really want to talk about: Hillary.
She's in a really good position right now, and she doesn't even know it. She's had her turn being battered by the media, and Barack was the saint. Now, she has an opportunity to turn the tables. My solution? Pick a VP now. Let's look at why this would work. Barack Obama is being confronted on three fronts: his pastor's un-inclusive way of phrasing things, the Rezko land deal, and most recently his petitioning for money to the hospital his wife worked at (resulting in a large raise for her, supposedly). Obama is facing the music, meanwhile Hillary is still licking her wounds. But she has done one positive thing: distanced herself from Geraldine Ferraro's comments about Barack being where he is because he is African-American. What she needs to do is make Obama look like he's falling behind, grounded by scandals. Obama dismisses a ticket team-up with her? Fine, she'll pick someone else while he deals with his problems. She, Hillary, will move forward for the country's benefit. If I were Hillary, I would NOT pick another youngish guy. What she needs to do is pick someone who is respected. How about House Majority Whip James Clyburn? Or her classmate friend of old, Governor Phil Bredesen of Tennessee. The message for her (and she has to get on this message fast) has to be moving forward for the country, while Barack "deals with his problems". Comments? ![]()
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ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide Last edited by hectorberlioz : 03-16-2008 at 08:35 PM. |
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#4 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
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On the Obama-Hillary-VP subject, this: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1205...n_commentaries
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#5 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
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I guess we should bring up the old Iraq thread...
But for politics 2008: Bloomberg NY Gov prospects http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...bloomberg.html
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#6 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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I have moved yours and The Gaffer's posts about Iraq to the thread about Iraq and Iran. They are now posts #174 and #173 in that thread.
![]() I think that was a very sound analysis; I'd hire you! ![]()
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 03-15-2008 at 05:17 PM. Reason: to make my post green |
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#7 | ||||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Here's an interesting article about Barack Obama. I like Obama too, largely because I am one of those college students that he energises and (as the author writes) he is a powerful communicator.
![]() I don't agree with everything the author writes, but it is a good article. However, this quote puzzled me. Maybe it's a cultural thing: Quote:
![]() Quote:
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#8 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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What no comments and carrying on about Obama's "race" speech? Hector, I figured youd write a tome on this whole Reverend Wright thing by now.
Id say he did as well as he possibly could considering he had to walk a knifes edge between how white people feel about this and how black people feel about it. My sister, who is also mixed race, was completely inspired by the speech and now considers herself a rock solid Obama supporter. Before, she had simply been focused on supporting which ever Democrat came to the top without a real preference one way or the other. But after the speech she was sold. I doubt as many white lower/middle class types were as touched but I wonder how many of them were at least affected by what he said on the issue. And I wonder how many he has permanently lost now because of his former reverends’ words.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#9 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
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It had some really good moments, but for some reason he delivered it rather...flatly
![]() One thing for sure, he ain't getting any cookies from his granny anytime soon ![]() I really don't have much more to say on the subject...I really don't care that Barack Obama went to that church, for whatever reasons he did. I get the feeling his wife has taken the Rev's sermons more to heart than he has, in any case. Jeremiah Wright is a jerk, a conspiracy theorist, and that's really where the issue ends for me. http://www.townhall.com/columnists/T.../obamas_speech
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#10 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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#11 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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I thought it was really good. Maybe not emotionally-charged, but I think that is kind of the point. It's the emotionally-charged high sounding words from both sides of the race debate that are the problem. If everyone was relaxed and pragmatic about it, we wouldn't have a problem.
I was impressed by how level-headed he was. It's an even rarer quality in leaders than the ability to inspire. I'm starting to prefer him over Hillary.
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#12 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
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I'm still wondering though, if the speech was TOO comprehensive. Question: does the concern over Reverend Wright's views and Obama's judgement in going to a church like that...does that naturally lead to a speech on race, in general, in America?
I realize of course that just last week the talk was about Geraldine Ferraro...but IMO, the mixing of the Black/White and Wright/Judgement do not necessarily go hand in hand. If you ask me, Obama dodged the real question at hand---to what extent Wright influenced him, and why did he go to that church if he so strongly disagreed with Wright--- and decided to cloud the room with talk about race. What's even more amazing is that Obama now says he would have left the church if he'd heard the rhetoric that we've been hearing in those clips.... I think that frankly, he didn't care (even if he disagreed) about Wright's rhetoric . Certainly not enough to leave. But also I think his wife really does identify with Wright's POV. Her comments about being proud of America for the first time in her life... makes more sense in the context of Jeremiah Wright's sermons. About Wright: as far as race-mongering, there is no white preacher I know of who says things of equal distaste. But on other issues: political and other, there are a few equivalents. Certainly Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson have had their nutso moments (Robertson towards Catholics). But as far as I know, they always apologized.
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ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide Last edited by hectorberlioz : 03-19-2008 at 04:36 PM. |
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#13 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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Robertson and Falwell have said stuff that is plenty worse.
I was very impressed with the short extracts I have seen of Obama's speech. He did not dodge the issue: which IS race. He accounted for this man's views, made it clear that he disagreed wholly, and he talked to his audience like they were grown-ups. |
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#14 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
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Whatever you say, Batman.
Quote:
I think it was overall a nice speech, but I think his message was somewhat confused. If he had given a speech on race alone, that would have been great. But in this speech it was more about apologizing for Wright's POV (even while distancing himself), and linking it to the overall issue of racism...which is where I think is where stuff got a bit squishy. I'm happy that Obama has distanced himself from Wright. He had to throw his grandma under the bus to do it, but hey, you gotta do what you gotta do. It might help to post the speech...let me see if I can find it real quick.
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ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide Last edited by hectorberlioz : 03-19-2008 at 09:20 PM. |
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#15 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
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THE LINK
Quote:
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ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
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#16 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
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Christopher Hitchens put a more stinging point to Obama using his grandmother in the speech. We talk about politicians selling their grandmothers, and Obama really did it.
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#17 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Quote:
Instead, he stated a truth that few people like to face up to: life isn't black and white. Almost everyone we love, and all we are friends with, have aspects of their personalities we either know about, or do not know about but find out about later, that we can not agree with at all, or even despise. With every person, it is a balance of positives and negatives. If the negatives add up too much, a friendship may be lost. But, when it comes to relatives, or someone who has played a big part in your life, it becomes even more difficult. I know very few people that could be that honest about someone they care about, but I'd sure love to see a lot more of them.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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#18 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Quote:
![]() It was a good speech, and he has had a good campaign policy on this issue, I think.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#19 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Quote:
If that was the case, Jesse Jackson would have won the nomination back in '84 or '88. I don't think that many people cast presidential votes as a sympathy vote. They judge people on personality. Put Barak's personality in a white skin, and he still does well. Put a different personality in Barak's skin, and he doesn't. One could argue that he'd bring black voters to the table, but they have been voting and voting democratic for years. On the flipside, I'm sure there is still a portion of people in the US that simply won't vote for a black. The portion that simply wouldn't vote for a white is much smaller; almost non-existant. So, being black is never an advantage.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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#20 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Internet
Posts: 803
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I've heard a few people who will vote for Obama simply because "It's about time America had a black president." However, I've heard people say the same of Hillary, inserting female for black of course. I don't think skin color matters personally, and I can't see it making a big difference in the election.
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