Egypt is the origin of Christianity, Judaism & Islam

[Butterbeer]

a well crafted and no doubt honest reply ...but one that kinda evades the question...

(* BB bows in respect* )


what then ( ... in highly summarised form ) ..do you beleive?

..and this is not the theology thread ... we have higher debate here ... less waffle and more honesty.


Is jesus ...

... Love,

effectively?

...and is that ALL we need ultimately to know????

[Elfhelm]

It seems a bit off topic, BB. And you'll no doubt think I'm dodging again. I can say what I don't believe, and what I'm not because I don't believe it. I don't think it was right for them to kill Jesus. I think he was set up to advance someone else's politics. I think he was a great person, but a man of his times, and that since then many other great men and women have come along with other great ideas. And some work and some don't, because today is a different day. So I think it is good to read the Bible, as well as the Bhagavad Gita, the Tao Te King, The Words of the High One (that would be Odin speaking from his crucified position on the tree of life, one of the Lesser Edda), The Dhamapada, etc. All of which I have read, but I go back to them. And I carry Whitman's Leaves of Grass with me where ever I go, a small copy with gold leaf on the edges and a lovely red ribbon stitched into the binding, because he's one of my masters, too.

Just slightly off-topic. I have the Egyptian Book of the Dead, but it doesn't speak to me. I believe in God, but beyond that I accept my ignorance.

[Butterbeer]

... if i am (generally) correct ...you beleive in God but in a non specific doctrinal way?

[Elfhelm]

hehe...

I probably shouldn't have said "believe". I see God everywhere, so it's more like I acknowledge it.

The doctrine I accept is brotherly love, though. So there is a doctrinal thing. But Whitman is far more interesting than me. Read him.

I think it's actually agains the rules of the moot to chat this up here, but the theology thread will serve, if you wish.

[Butterbeer]

yes but what about sisterly love?

(oh ..it does not matter where ... remember this IS crucial to understanding the sphinx and whatnot)

best, BB

[Elfhelm]

Actually, on topic, the question is: did Jesus invent the Eucharist, or did he borrow it, or did someone add it later (a longshot, this last, as it is in all four synoptic gospels)?

Here are quotes, copied from their wikipedia pages:

" For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him." (John 6:55-56)

in the Pyramid Text of Teta (2600 BC) where the Osiris Teta “receivest thy bread which decayeth not, and thy beer which perisheth not” In the Text of Pepi I we read: “All the gods give thee their flesh and their blood…. Thou shalt not die.” In the Text of Pepi II the aspirant prays for “thy bread of eternity, and thy beer of everlastingness” (Line 390).

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

is not true faith by definition blind though? Else it is not faith but a system of beleif?

ah..... not a Knight of St george then EL tel?

are you jamacian or american???

*BB's rapier is not lightly given though .... the honour of the just and the given sword is ever the judge of the true knight....*

I am jamaican, born and raised.

I have been in the process of finding a new apartment and I will be moving over the weekend. So, I will be scarse for a while.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

I am jamaican, born and raised.
.

Cool Runnings Man. Everythings Ire!

[Butterbeer]

...aye ... may the god of Bobsleigh be with you!

goodluck with the moving stuff ... pain up the ...
best, BB

[Elfhelm]

Oh good lord... I never even thought to take the Kebra Negast into consideration here! Now all is clear.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Just zipping in for two quick OT comments:

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

It IS to have God in your heart ..and your Soul and in your actions and to love .... any wicked fool can agree he died for your sins ... does that make your soul worthy?

Nay.

Is any soul worthy? Most definitely not, from a Christian perspective. If we were already worthy, we wouldn't need Christ to personify Love for us.

. So I think it is good to read the Bible, as well as the Bhagavad Gita, the Tao Te King, The Words of the High One (that would be Odin speaking from his crucified position on the tree of life, one of the Lesser Edda), The Dhamapada, etc.

I agree. I want to read the Scriptures of as many religions as I can.

What about the Koran and the Talmud? I notice in the different lists you give of Scripture, you've never mentioned them (at least in the ones I saw); is there a reason for that?

[Elfhelm]

I read a translation of the Koran. I don't recommend it. I don't recommend Joseph Smith, either. I can't say either way about the Talmud. The laws of other cultures are interesting, I guess, but I live in a place where we make our own laws, so I might be prejudiced against old books of ancient laws. I'll have to give it some thought. The books I did mention are of interest for their spiritual thoughts.

[Rosie Gamgee]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

Well, what I mean is that I was raised christian; went to church every sunday, the whole bit. You may not be familiar with the anglican church, there are not many in america, however it is the dominant christian church in jamaica or any other english speaking caribbean island. It is very similar to the catholic church. I was a christian because my parents wanted me to be not because of choice.

So I believed as all christians do and basically have the same beliefs today. The difference now is that, that belief is based on, and tempered with, research and knowledge (as the topic of this thread) as oppose to blind faith, which is the way the masses have ever been enslaved.

I believe I have far more faith now than I ever had, and it increases daily. So I find it quite strange indeed, when some would say that I merely would believe anything, when they are just simply acting through faith with out varifiable truth and knowledge.

Thanks for answering, Tel. If I might ask one more 'direct question': When you say you have 'faith'--faith in what? What do you mean by faith?

BB- I mean to lay no traps. I simply want to understand where The Tel's coming from.

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by Rosie Gamgee

Thanks for answering, Tel. If I might ask one more 'direct question': When you say you have 'faith'--faith in what? What do you mean by faith?

BB- I mean to lay no traps. I simply want to understand where The Tel's coming from.

Well, as I have said I mostly still believe as most christians do, however with the stories of the bible taking place in different places, namely ethiopia and egypt.

However that really is a footnote in my world and a very recent one at that, since as far as the bible goes, I am in general wary. I believe in love, thus having a lack of fear, since there are too many points in the bible where it says 1. you should fear god-I say hell no, and 2. you are born with sin, I do not believe that. I think that with the rest of the lies, in it, those were sown in as a put down and by people who have hidden agendas; you know before the printing press, not only most people did not own a bible, most people could not read it. The priest therefore used to control people just by saying that the bible said this or that. I do think there is a real bible, I just think that none of us has ever seen it let alone read it.

What I believe exactly is this, say god is a regular drinking glass OK. If you take the glass and shatter it, what do you get, splinters; we are the splinters OK, We are one. Thus there is no one to fear, no one to hate and no one to mistrust except, in, our, mines. I have a very high opinion of humanity and our history, I do not believe it is possible to say that anyone is ordinary because we are all extra ordinary. I just think we need to wake up and see that. That's what this thread was all about, to uncover the lie, to reveal the why of it, and to speculate by whom and to what purpose.

So when the bible says, fear god, to me that says fear self. And loving myself means to love all of humanity, which means to love god. We were made in his image truely; I fear nothing. This is my world, I am the decider!!!!!

[Rosie Gamgee]

Again, thanks for answering.

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by Rosie Gamgee

Again, thanks for answering.

Sure though it has accured to me that it's only fair that I ask you, some dirsct questions.

To start, what is your point of view on the thread topic.

[Elfhelm]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

say god is a regular drinking glass OK. If you take the glass and shatter it, what do you get, splinters; we are the splinters

I like that.

Or how about this. Say God is an ocean and I am a drop of water. As a drop, I take a shape, one that is different from the ocean. Well, you might say a drop is made in the image of the ocean, or you might say the drop is a pale imitation of the ocean, but I don't agree with either point of view. I say ever molecule of a water drop resonates with the molecules of the ocean. And one day, the drop falls into the ocean. It ceases to exist, as a drop, but the water still exists. Every molecule still exists. And in the end, the shape of the drop was only an illusion. It was always ocean, even though it was separate for a while.

But mythology is a different thing altogether. Egyptian mythology is derived from the myths of about forty different nomes. Some are similar enough to allow merging deities, but in some cases the favorite god of the current pharaoh would replace a god of similar aspect. We are talking about three thousand years here! Take all the changes in Christianity over two thousand years and add another thousand! That's a long time!

And what is mythology, and what does it serve? That's actually pretty simple. Gods and goddesses represent aspects of ourselves. The stories of their doings are really stories about aspects of a person struggling inside the person. The death cult rose to prominence in Egypt. I agree. (I personally don't believe in death, as you might surmise from the first paragraph.) The sacrificial victim who dies for our salvation, and the ceremonial canabalism, come from Egypt, as far as I can tell. But it was also going on in the Americas, so there might be some unconcious urge in that direction that has actually been around since the caves. What happened to the Donner Party may have happened a gazillion times in prehistory, and these myths might represent the psychic residue.

[edited because Spock's questioning look makes me think the final comment was off topic, and mere chit chat.]

[Spock]

[Spock]

Die Kraft des Schicksals

[Rosie Gamgee]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

Sure though it has accured to me that it's only fair that I ask you, some dirsct questions.

To start, what is your point of view on the thread topic.

It's bunk, IMO, to be quite honest and blunt. To continue with the honesty, I must confess that I haven't read all of the posts, just skimmed. So forgive me if my replies to your questions seem a little less that educated.

I don't see how the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob could be the God of Egypt at all. Not when Israel is the one to whom all the Old Testament promises are made, and not when Israel is the one seeing the results of those promises.
btw, where does God the Son fit into the whole Egypt-thing? The promise of a Messiah? The coming of a Messiah; his death, ressurection, and promised return? Are these in your... I don't know what you call it; faith? Religion?