10-18-2003, 01:06 PM | #181 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Saudi Arabia firing 2,000 clerics for preaching intolerance (hate) is NOT a small number to me.
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10-18-2003, 01:14 PM | #182 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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10-18-2003, 01:24 PM | #183 | ||||
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The difference here is that the Palesinians don't see themselves as aggressors. They believe that it's their land which is occupied by an enemy, and they don't have many other ways to "defend" themselves. Germany in WWII was an aggressor, attacking others with no reason at all, only a lust to kill off as many jews, gypsies, homosexuals, osv as possible. There are huge differences between WWII and this situation. For one thing, the Israelis have a much bigger army than the Palestinians. The Palesinians feel surpressed by the Israelis
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10-18-2003, 01:28 PM | #184 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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We have fallen into this belief that if we say anything negative about a group of people who is not white - it has to be the result of racism. Well - my feelings toward the Middle East has nothing to do with racism - it has to do with the terrorist attacks, the BLATANT hatred against non-muslims in that is taught in the mosques and in the schools. When I see the student demonstrations in Iran - I SUPPORT them and am hoping that they succeed so we an be friends as nations - but then the religious leaders put down these demonstrations (sometimes very violently) and the Muslim world just sits there.
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10-18-2003, 01:45 PM | #185 | ||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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conflict with Israel. Israel would not have attacked the Palestinians if they were not attacked. The so-called occuppied terrorties as I have said in countless threads and Valandil has repeated here - is land that Israel won in a war which was started by Syria, Egpyt, etc. Now they want the land back - and say that they are the ones who have been victimized by Israel. If those countries didn't try eliminating israel - there would be peace. Quote:
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Oh and Falagar - sorry for the "head up your ass comment" I guess I was still upset about Sween's comment and resorted to using that statement.
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10-18-2003, 01:56 PM | #186 | |
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Can't comment more right now...
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10-18-2003, 01:58 PM | #187 | |
Elf Lord
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A land is conquered, outside settlers ( Scottish Protestants/ Israeli settlers) are encouraged to colonise to both take over the land and control the native population (Irish Catholics/ Palestinians); the settlers have a strong religious antagonism toward the indigenous populace, and feel the God has given the land to them. The settlers are backed by such overwhelming armed force(British Army/ Israeli Army) that the original inhabitants have nothing to fight back with but terrorism (IRA/ Islamic Jihad etc.), which leads them to be condemned by most, while recieving funding and support from outside forces some of whom claim -maybe even truthfully- that they're only supporting charities (other Muslims/Irish- Americans {and Irish-Canadians and Irish-Australians, though the bulk of the support and funding came from Boston and New York})
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10-18-2003, 02:00 PM | #188 |
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Oh - and by the way falagar - Hitler came to power and he sought revenge because of the Treaty of Versailles. Becuase that treaty was a revenge treaty and Europe wanted Germany to pay dearly for WWI. America was against this treaty and spoke out against it.
Do you think that Hitler had a right to start WWII because of the Treaty of Versailles - will you stick up for him like you seem to be sticking up for the Palestinians and the other fanatical Muslims who resort to bombings and terrorism? Again - I see no difference in the terrorists of the Middle East, bin Ladin, the PLO, etc - than that of Hitler. Just the methods are different.
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10-18-2003, 02:05 PM | #189 |
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This thread has turned toward a discussion of terrorism. And since it has, I'd like to point out that the only Mooter that actually lives with this first hand and everyday, that I know of, is Radagast the Brown. I take his comments here very seriously, and I give him more credit than any of the other posts about this subject.
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10-18-2003, 02:06 PM | #190 | ||
Elf Lord
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Hey- it was ALL Palestinian land originally. You can convert to Judaism tomorrow and have a right to live in Israel, but if you're a Palestinian who was born there and whose land was taken during the establishment of Israel, you're out of luck- one of the reasons for the breakdown of the Camp David Accords was the refusal to allow even a symbolic right of return for some Palestinians.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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10-18-2003, 02:06 PM | #191 | |
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10-18-2003, 02:15 PM | #192 | ||
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10-18-2003, 02:16 PM | #193 | ||
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The Indians of North America - are not going to get back the United States land - anymore than the Palestinians are going to get back Israel. The Anglos-Saxons - are not going to get back the land of England. Is Europe going to give England, Germany, France, Turkey back to Rome? or should we just go ALL the way back to our prehistoric tribes - with the Gauls and all that? Quote:
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10-18-2003, 02:20 PM | #194 | |
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For the terrorists - it has less to do with their homeland than it does with their hatred of the Jews and the destruction of Israel. Did you read my post where I show what is said in the Mosques and taught in the schools of Saudi Arabia?
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10-18-2003, 02:20 PM | #195 | |
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10-18-2003, 02:27 PM | #196 | |
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'Most' is a big word.
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10-18-2003, 03:17 PM | #197 |
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I would appreciate that you not patronize me, JD, as I am an educated adult. I am not a pimpled twelve year old drooling over actors, but someone who reads the daily news and listens to NPR at least three hours a day. I would appreciate it if you would take my opinions seriously. It would do a lot for this debate. Anyway, I will take a big step and say that YES, Israel should lay down their arms. Look at it this way - right now, people are dying on both sides. It is hard to say who is right and who is wrong when both sides are committing atrocities, and doing everything in their power to destroy the other. Neither side has the moral authority. As soon as one side has the courage to end this terror (and yes, I call both sides terroristic - sorry, people, it takes two to tango), that morality belongs to them. At that point, if the Palestinians continued with their attacks, likely all of Europe and most of the world would throw their support behind Israel, as they would be the innocent victims. The pressure that would be put on the Palestinians would likely force them directly to do the same. Right now, as long as they respond an eye-for-an-eye, as they have been doing, they are not an innocent victim, just another player in a bloody, drawn-out, terrible religious war.
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10-18-2003, 03:28 PM | #198 |
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(This thread keeps going way off topic, so I'll just add my own off topic thoughts to the post ).
I'm not familiar with Isreal's governmental structure, but do they have a Senate like ours? I mean, couldn't they somehow appoint a few Palestinians to posts in their gov., so that they'd have a voice there that could take comments from "the people" and then translate that into legislation that would allow the peace process to move forward? And in the meantime, the Isrealis could continue to keep the hammer down on potential terrorism, but there could be some system in place that would allow direct dialog that would actually move everything in a positive direction? And yes, if the Palestinians resorted to peaceful protest (if that was TAUGHT TO THEM AND PREACHED IN THEIR MOSQUES they'd be doing it), then you just KNOW Isreal would work with them, and even provide humanitarian aid, etc. to help them (I would hope). But for some reason this fanatical Islam has taken hold and permeated the moderate Islamic doctrine, so that the moderate Muslims don't speak about the terrorism (I mean speak out, as in stage major protests, doing whatever they can to curb the terrorism. You'd think they would, since it would improve their quality of life so much, IOW, they could live their lives in peace). In fact, it's reported that a lot of mosques here in the U.S. have been investigated for bankrolling the terrorist training. There are layers between the two, but the unwitting Muslim might be asked to donate to a cause through the mosque here in the U.S., then that money is sent to that organization, which then sends the money to another country, where it ends up in hands of a cover group for terrorists. So that's been a big problem, how to delicately handle this so as to curtail it, but not infringe on the rights of people of faith giving to charity. It's so hard to "follow the money" in many cases. Also, we DO have a substantial Muslim pop. in the U.S.: in addition to immigrants from Islamic countries and their children, there are also a number of black Americans who converted (especially in the sixties and seventies) as a way to reach back to their African roots. |
10-18-2003, 03:29 PM | #199 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Well, it seems that Israel is more defensive than offensive, and although they be the stronger of the two, and it would seem more logical that they be the ones to lay down their arms first, I think that they have the most to lose and would likely be attacked.
It isn't the Israeli government or military, or the palistinian clerics, terrorists or islamic fanatics that are the victims in any of this. It is the helpless old people that can do nothing, and children, that can do nothing, but sit and wait for hope to come.
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10-18-2003, 03:30 PM | #200 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I however agree with you that it would be good to have a Palestinian. Are you aware of the Seeds of Peace? In 2001 - there was an aricle that the palestinians weren't going to send a delegation. I'm unsure as to whether they did or not... Quote:
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