Victimless crimes

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by jerseydevil

We already are at war - and we will be at war for a while. As long as we are threatened by a bunch of fanatics.

Yeah? You know there ARE some who would call Americans fanatics... Not me of course!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by BeardofPants


Yeah? You know there ARE some who would call Americans fanatics... Not me of course!

Sure you don't call us fanatics. I think we both know where we each stand on this subject. You don't live 40 miles from where the Twin Towers stood.

Like I said in another thread that turned towards the "evil americans" - I would perfectly be happy to have us become isolationists again. Let the world blow themselves up. We're negotiating peace between India and Pakistan - have tried for years to bring the Palestinians and Israel together. Maybe New Zealand should deal with the Middle East peace. It's easy to sit there and complain about everything - everyone always says = "where is America?" when we're not involved and then says - "Why is America sticking it's nose in?" when we are.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Sure you don't call us fanatics.

Actually, I don't - contrary to your low opinion of me.

Anyway, lets get back on topic, before another flame war starts or something! I MUCH prefer it when we're on the same side!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by BeardofPants

Anyway, lets get back on topic, before another flame war starts or something! I MUCH prefer it when we're on the same side!

So do I. And I don't have a low opinion of you.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by jerseydevil


So do I. And I don't have a low opinion of you.

Ah those good old days on the anti-theist thread... *nostalgic look*

Does the corporate takover of the world count as a victimless crime?

I dunno. That depends on whether you choose to define whether or not those corporate heads have brains.

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by BeardofPants


I dunno. That depends on whether you choose to define whether or not those corporate heads have brains.

"Yes, I think the name was Abby something"

"Abby what?"

"Abby Normal"

"Are you telling me I just put an abnormal brain into a 7 foot, 350 pound gorilla???"

Could we at least make nice with Cuba? If we can kiss China on the mouth...

Bhopal, anyone?

Ya JD, I was 3 blocks from the Whitehouse, a mile from the pentagon on 911. We will never forget. Maybe we are resented because while we have sacrificed in war, we haven't had a war on our soil for 140 years. Can you imagine a suicide bomber every week in NY?

Isolationism is matbe extreme, but I thinkwe should get out of NATO, Korea, Saudi Arabia. If policy wasn't made by short sighted politicians we would have less trouble. We spent the 80's funding Iraq ($10 billion+)and the Muhjaddin (parent of Al Queda). Everyone screamed "Wag the Dog" when Clinton went after Bin Laden when the US Embassy in Kenya was bombed.

Occupying Iraq would make Beruit seem like a paradise. It won't be fun, but it seems inevitable that sooner or later Saddam will do something stupid and force our hand. Our own little Frankenstein's monster.

In the mean time, getting ready for a terror war at home is probably the best strategy pursued so far. Kicking the oil habit sometime would be a good idea as well. Am I dreaming?

[jerseydevil]

New Jersey has the Energy Choice program - so we can choose what enegy supplier we use. I've gone with Green Mountain. It uses mostly renewable energy sources.

[Cirdan]

Thanks for the link, JD. It's not available here, yet. We have the coice of coal or coal. I tried to land a job with a similar company which recently moved their corporate headquarters here. They've had financial problems with the fluctuations in the engery market and the capital drain of the recession.

[jerseydevil]

I had PSE&G - I got the pollution breakdown that they have to supply. At least I think they have to supply it.

But here is the break down..
PSE&G - Energy Sources
Coal 23%
Gas 14.12%
Hydroelectric 0.15%
Nuclear 57.95%
Oil 1.31%
Renewable energy -
Captured Methane Gas 0.30%
Hydroelectric (small) 0.04%
Solid Waste 2.34%

The way the pollution breaks down by NJ standards* -
CO2 - 62%
NOx - 49%
SO2 - 138% (over New Jersey's benchmark)

Green Mountain
HydroElectric 50%
Renewable Energy - 50% - broken up among the various renewable enery sources. (Hyrdoelectric small, Captured Methane Gas, Solar, Wind)

The way the pollution breaks down by NJ standards* -
CO2 - 0%
NOx - 51%
SO2 - 0%

CO2 is a "greehouse gas" which may contribute to global climate change.
SO2 and NOx react to form acids found in acid rain.
NOx also reacts to form ground level ozone, an unheathful component of "smog"

*100% is the average emission rate for all electricity generation in New Jersey.

These things were taken from the environmental labels for PSE&G and Green Mountain Energy.

[Wayfarer]

Neither the far right or the far left are right. They're both way too extreme - both want to restrict freedoms.

I heard it put this way once:

Conservatives want to keep the things that have made our country great.
Liberals want to save our country from the things that hinder it.

As far as that goes, they're both right.

Some radical conservatives think that age alone is a redeeming quality, even if the item being discussed is otherwise harmful.
Some radical liberals think that novelty alone is a redeeming quality, even if the item being discussed is otherwise harmful.

As far as that goes, they're both wrong.

I think that sums up the good and bad in both parties.

Bop: Do you know what I mean when I say that the political climate of coastal america is marcusian? The coastal elites have learned to deal with dissent by suppressing it.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Bop: Do you know what I mean when I say that the political climate of coastal america is marcusian? The coastal elites have learned to deal with dissent by suppressing it.

No, I haven't heard of marcusian ideology. Is it a revival of marxism?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Do you know what I mean when I say that the political climate of coastal america is marcusian? The coastal elites have learned to deal with dissent by suppressing it.

What do you mean by coastal America? I live in coastal America. New Jersey is a very independent state. Some parts lean very democratic, others lean very republican. Most people don't seem to vote down party lines either here.

If this is what you think coastal America is like (an I must assume you are talking about East and West coast) then you've never been here. Or at least very long to know anything about the politics. I find this statement to be more true in the midwest.

In our Marcusian one-dimensional society, however, we do not speak as much as we are only spoken to. Increased automation means that we no longer act, we are acted upon. We no longer produce, as much as we are produced. We no longer rationalize, as we are entirely rationalized.
Lacan vs Marcuse

Couldn't find much on Marcusian, not in the dictionary nor on the web. I did some more searching - I found some things on Herbert Marcuse - but nothing that describes the East Coast that I live in. Maybe you have a warped sense of what coastal America is like or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying.

[BeardofPants]

Thanks for looking it up, JD - I couldn't find anything specifically on marcusian philosophy either.

I guess we'll just have to sit back and await for further explanations from Wayfarer.

And about here, I'll insert his favourite saying: the burden of proof lies upon the claimant...

[Cirdan]

So, how many miles from the coast does the suppression end? Is it gradational or is it like an international waters boundary? Are the great lakes included? Do they use black helicopters? Please, we need more information. How will we ever be free without the knowledge posessed by the landlocked free peoples of America?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Cirdan
So, how many miles from the coast does the suppression end? Is it gradational or is it like an international waters boundary? Are the great lakes included? Do they use black helicopters? Please, we need more information. How will we ever be free without the knowledge posessed by the landlocked free peoples of America?

I want to know too. I would like to escape to freedom. Are there walls that we have to climb? Are there check points we might have to hide in the back of car trunks to avoid? Can you send us plans so we can escape to the more enlightened parts of America? And to think - I thought I just escaped from the sameness of the interior of America, known as the midwest, now you're saying I have to go back in order to have free will.

Here are some sites I found on Herbert Marcuse. I just at a loss as to how Wayfarer can say that his philosophy "is the political climate of coastal America".

Herbert Marcuse: Aggressiveness in Advanced Industrial Society (1967)
THE NAKED MARX
American National Biography::Marcuse, Herbert
Herbert Marcuse (1898-1979)
Sigmund Freud

[Cirdan]

Well, I guess if you think about it, the most populous cities are coastal. The most populous cities are places where liberal thought would be more common than more rural areas.

What that has to do with marxism/communism? No idea...

There are probably more neo-nazis in the US than commies. Both groups are a joke as far as power.

It could be a statement of cynical political posturing.

It contradicts his statements about extremists being ideologically bankrupt. By what mechanism can a tiny minority control 100 million people?

It is common propaganda technique to cast the majority as controlled by a small group of elite. I think it is supposed to make the moderate feel like he is too radical.

I think our friend lives in the most conservative states in the union, so I'm guessing there is a lack of perspective at work.

[FrodoFriend]

I wish I'd come into this discussion sooner . . . are we talking about Marxism?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Cirdan
Well, I guess if you think about it, the most populous cities are coastal. The most populous cities are places where liberal thought would be more common than more rural areas.

What that has to do with marxism/communism? No idea...

The thing is - New Jersey flip flops on New Jersey Governors. One time a democrat will get elected, then the next time we'll have a republican. Same with the state senators and with mayors. And look at New York (the largest city in the country) - Guiliani (two time governor) and now Michael Bloomberg - both republicans.

Originally posted by Cirdan

There are probably more neo-nazis in the US than commies. Both groups are a joke as far as power.

And where do the more fanantical and militant elements of America reside? The south, the midwest and the Rocky Mountain region.

Originally posted by Cirdan
I think our friend lives in the most conservative states in the union, so I'm guessing there is a lack of perspective at work.

I can only speak for the states I've lived in, those being - New Jersey, California, West Virginia, Indiana, Oregon and Illinois. Oregon - a coastal state - will demonstrate at the drop of a hat, same with California. Indiana and Illinois might as well be the same state except for Chicago. Both are very religious, very white and very status quo. West Virginia - we had cross burnings behind my dorms. I had the bathroom window next to my room shot out by a "townee". The KKK a couple of years before I got there had marched on campus. Need I say more?

Sorry - I like New Jersey. We have our problems. But we're diversified, both religiously and ethnicly. Everyone pretty much gets along with one another. There is hardly any prejudice. And we're far more moderate thinking.

[BeardofPants]

So, Wayfarer, does this Marcusian thing only apply to coast cities in the US? I'd hate to think I was being mislead or something.

[Cirdan]

OMG, BoP is on an island! EVIL! EVIL!