The Children of the Valar

The White Rider · 03-19-2002, 12:30 PM

In "The Book of Lost Tales 2" there is mention of a child of Manwe and Varda called Fionwe. It also metions Telimektar (Taimonto) as son of Tulkas and

(not mentioned)

It also mentions someone called Telvildo (who?), who is put in bonds and helps Melkor return. Also, what is the great pine metioned, from the seed cast in the garden Gilfanon. (Page 281)

Questions:
Were there more than 2 children of the Valar (and who)?
Who is Telvildo?
What is the Great Pine?
Who is Telimektar's mother?

These answers will greatly explain the end of Arda.

Ñólendil · 03-19-2002, 12:52 PM

You have to remember the Book of Lost Tales contains a different world than that seen in The Silmarillion. In the Book of Lost Tales those sprits we know as the Maiar were the Children of the Valar. Fionwe is the BoLT = of Eönwë

Findegil · 03-19-2002, 02:52 PM

In The Book of Lost Tales and many later stuff which can be found of in The History of Middle-Earth were several Children of the Valar mentioned. But these conception was abondened before the publication of The Lord of the Ring. I don't want to recollect for you all the Children of the Valar. But at least Manwe and Varda had also a daughter and Telimektar had himself again a son. Orome is called the son of Yavanna but he is reconed as one of the Valar and not as one of their children. By the way the mother of Telimektar could be Nessa but I'm not sure if this was so in The Book of Lost Tales.

Tevildo was the Lord of the cats. He plays in the Tale of Tinuviel in that early version given The Book of Lost Tales a simelar part to that of Sauron in the later versions.

A pine is a tree, not more and not less.

Hope I have given some help.
Findegil

The White Rider · 03-20-2002, 05:27 PM

Findegil, The pine I mentioned is of course a tree

, but it is mentioned with great acclaim in The BoLT2. It is called the Great Pine of Tavrobel. It says, as mentioned before, it was cast away in the garden of Gilfanon. It also says that after his return Melkor is chased up it by Telimektar and Ingil (who???). It is, to the dismay of the Valar, cut down, for it was said great tidings would come of it. So, what is THIS Great Pine?

Also, is there anyone out there bothered to tell me the other Children of the Valar???

Wayfarer · 03-20-2002, 05:38 PM

Melko originally had a child (by 'Ulbandi') who later became gothmog.

Findegil · 03-21-2002, 08:46 AM

White Rider, if you have The Book of Lost Tales as it seems, then go back in their and read it again. In all Tolkiens published works you will not find any other source about the great Pine of Tavrobel.
When I remember rightly what is written, than this was not more than a very high tree, which reached up into the region of the stars. And Melko after climbing up jumped into that region and since the tree was cut down he could not return. It was to the dismay of the Elves that the tree was cut down by the Valar, since the Elves loved that tree. And the big think that would come out of the gift of Yavanna is obviously the tree that gave the Valar a chance to drive Melko out "of the world". So the episode which, was certainly abandoned very soon, is not about the return of Melko which for the story of The Book of Lost Tales certainly still in the future.
By the way, Ingil is the son of Ingwe the High King of all Eldar and of the first Folk of them (later named the Vanyar) in special.

Regrads
Findegil

03-19-2002, 12:30 PM	#1
The White Rider Hobbit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere in the name of Arda Posts: 23	The Children of the Valar In "The Book of Lost Tales 2" there is mention of a child of Manwe and Varda called Fionwe. It also metions Telimektar (Taimonto) as son of Tulkas and (not mentioned) It also mentions someone called Telvildo (who?), who is put in bonds and helps Melkor return. Also, what is the great pine metioned, from the seed cast in the garden Gilfanon. (Page 281) Questions: Were there more than 2 children of the Valar (and who)? Who is Telvildo? What is the Great Pine? Who is Telimektar's mother? These answers will greatly explain the end of Arda. __________________ Guiding everyone I can see... Straight to doom except for me. Last edited by The White Rider : 03-19-2002 at 12:32 PM.

03-19-2002, 12:52 PM	#2
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	You have to remember the Book of Lost Tales contains a different world than that seen in The Silmarillion. In the Book of Lost Tales those sprits we know as the Maiar were the Children of the Valar. Fionwe is the BoLT = of Eönwë __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

03-20-2002, 05:27 PM	#4
The White Rider Hobbit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere in the name of Arda Posts: 23	Findegil, The pine I mentioned is of course a tree , but it is mentioned with great acclaim in The BoLT2. It is called the Great Pine of Tavrobel. It says, as mentioned before, it was cast away in the garden of Gilfanon. It also says that after his return Melkor is chased up it by Telimektar and Ingil (who???). It is, to the dismay of the Valar, cut down, for it was said great tidings would come of it. So, what is THIS Great Pine? Also, is there anyone out there bothered to tell me the other Children of the Valar??? __________________ Guiding everyone I can see... Straight to doom except for me.

03-20-2002, 05:38 PM	#5
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Melko originally had a child (by 'Ulbandi') who later became gothmog. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

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03-19-2002, 02:52 PM	#3
Findegil Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 192	In The Book of Lost Tales and many later stuff which can be found of in The History of Middle-Earth were several Children of the Valar mentioned. But these conception was abondened before the publication of The Lord of the Ring. I don't want to recollect for you all the Children of the Valar. But at least Manwe and Varda had also a daughter and Telimektar had himself again a son. Orome is called the son of Yavanna but he is reconed as one of the Valar and not as one of their children. By the way the mother of Telimektar could be Nessa but I'm not sure if this was so in The Book of Lost Tales. Tevildo was the Lord of the cats. He plays in the Tale of Tinuviel in that early version given The Book of Lost Tales a simelar part to that of Sauron in the later versions. A pine is a tree, not more and not less. Hope I have given some help. Findegil

03-21-2002, 08:46 AM	#6
Findegil Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 192	White Rider, if you have The Book of Lost Tales as it seems, then go back in their and read it again. In all Tolkiens published works you will not find any other source about the great Pine of Tavrobel. When I remember rightly what is written, than this was not more than a very high tree, which reached up into the region of the stars. And Melko after climbing up jumped into that region and since the tree was cut down he could not return. It was to the dismay of the Elves that the tree was cut down by the Valar, since the Elves loved that tree. And the big think that would come out of the gift of Yavanna is obviously the tree that gave the Valar a chance to drive Melko out "of the world". So the episode which, was certainly abandoned very soon, is not about the return of Melko which for the story of The Book of Lost Tales certainly still in the future. By the way, Ingil is the son of Ingwe the High King of all Eldar and of the first Folk of them (later named the Vanyar) in special. Regrads Findegil