Why D'you all want to be Elves? - Page 7

Ruinel · 04-02-2003, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rÃ« MistÃ«
I, am so proud- I don't want to be an elf. I want to be human or half-elf.

Aha! "half-elf"!!! There you have it. The evidence is there before you.

Gwaimir Windgem · 04-02-2003, 09:40 PM

Hate to break it to you, but there aren't really any half-elves.

Ruinel · 04-03-2003, 09:18 AM

Yes... Elrond is half Elven, but had chosen to be Elf.

Elf Girl · 04-03-2003, 04:52 PM

And Elros is Half-Elven, but chose to be a Man.

So you would either be and Elf with a human parent, (Elrond) or a mortal human with and elf parent, (Elros).

TÃ¡ri_of_Varies_Nienna · 04-03-2003, 05:36 PM

Elves are respectable, kinda girly in a way, but they are NOT immortal as Peter Jackson says. They do die. Hate to brake it to you PJ, but if Elves die in battle, THEY'RE NOT IMMORTAL! heehee, sry.
Elves are kool, and if i just thought of the bat what i would want to be in M-E, i would be a Wizard, not an Elf.
HA!

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 04-03-2003, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TÃ¡ri_of_Varies_Nienna
Elves are respectable, kinda girly in a way, but they are NOT immortal as Peter Jackson says. They do die. Hate to brake it to you PJ, but if Elves die in battle, THEY'RE NOT IMMORTAL! heehee, sry.
Elves are kool, and if i just thought of the bat what i would want to be in M-E, i would be a Wizard, not an Elf.
HA!

Elves are immortal within the circles of the world. They die not until the world dies. If they die in battle or grief, or whatever, they may in time return to the world.

Ruinel · 04-03-2003, 06:17 PM

The original design of Elves is that they do not die. It was Melkor's tainting of the world that changed those designs. Thus, Elves can die because of great stresses to their bodies (ie, battle, or the extreme cold as seen at the crossing of the Helkaraxe), or because of great grief. None of that was part of the original design for Elves.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 04-03-2003, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruinel
The original design of Elves is that they do not die. It was Melkor's tainting of the world that changed those designs. Thus, Elves can die because of great stresses to their bodies (ie, battle, or the extreme cold as seen at the crossing of the Helkaraxe), or because of great grief. None of that was part of the original design for Elves.

I believe that that is what it says about Men in the Athrabeth. The Sil says that Elves could be slain or waste in grief, and to both these deaths they were subject.

In the Athrabeth, Andreth tells Finrod that Men were never meant to die and were like the Elves, but they had done something against Eru and death was imposed upon them. Finrod does state though, that Morgoth's taint on the world did however weaken the Elves in body.

Ruinel · 04-03-2003, 08:04 PM

But in Morgoth's Ring HoME 10...fÃ«a

Quote:

Now the Eldar are immortal within Arda according to their right nature.

Then it talks about the hrÃ¶a is made of the flesh or substance of Arda itself, which makes it vulnerable to the "evils that do hurt to Arda (meaning the Marring of Arda by Melkor). Then it goes on to say that in fact Elves experienced death early in their creation "in the marred and overshadowed realm of Arda."
Maybe I'm wrong.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 04-03-2003, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruinel
But in Morgoth's Ring HoME 10...fÃ«a

Then it talks about the hrÃ¶a is made of the flesh or substance of Arda itself, which makes it vulnerable to the "evils that do hurt to Arda (meaning the Marring of Arda by Melkor). Then it goes on to say that in fact Elves experienced death early in their creation "in the marred and overshadowed realm of Arda."
Maybe I'm wrong.

Oh, I don't think you're wrong at all. I think it is how we interpret Tolkien. There is no right or wrong in some things.

As I said, the Elven body was not a durable after the tainting of Arda. finrod says so himself, but they were immortal within the bounds of the world.

Ruinel · 04-04-2003, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Oh, I don't think you're wrong at all. I think it is how we interpret Tolkien. There is no right or wrong in some things.

As I said, the Elven body was not a durable after the tainting of Arda. finrod says so himself, but they were immortal within the bounds of the world.

Let me see if I understand you right. You are saying that Elves are immortal because their bodies die but are reborn again with the same spirit and memory. Is this what you are saying?

If yes, then we're saying the same thing, basically. I'm saying Elves were meant to never die, but because the plan for the world was changed by Melkor, Elves' bodies did die (due to great stresses upon their body or spirit). But to compensate and "fix" the plan, they were reborn (with the same memory and spirit) again. That fulfills the original plan by Iluvatar.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 04-04-2003, 09:37 AM

Yep. I think we're one the same page.

afro-elf · 02-03-2014, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty Scaevola

A small experience with disease or the ravages of age would motivate many to seek an existance avoiding them.

Indeed.

***Alcuin*** · 02-03-2014, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afro-elf

About Eowyn,
Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means?

Dernhelm might translate as â€œHidden Protectorâ€, an apt appellation, since she fought to defend ThÃ©oden from the Witch-king.

Or am I taking the bait and responding to your signature, A-E?

04-02-2003, 09:40 PM	#122
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Hate to break it to you, but there aren't really any half-elves. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

04-03-2003, 04:52 PM	#124
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: LothlÃ³rien Posts: 3,419	And Elros is Half-Elven, but chose to be a Man. So you would either be and Elf with a human parent, (Elrond) or a mortal human with and elf parent, (Elros). __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

04-03-2003, 05:36 PM	#125
TÃ¡ri_of_Varies_Nienna Hobbit Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 23	Elves are respectable, kinda girly in a way, but they are NOT immortal as Peter Jackson says. They do die. Hate to brake it to you PJ, but if Elves die in battle, THEY'RE NOT IMMORTAL! heehee, sry. Elves are kool, and if i just thought of the bat what i would want to be in M-E, i would be a Wizard, not an Elf. HA! __________________ "Why thankyou Jack." "Your welcome" "Not you, i named the monkey Jack."-Captain Barbossa and Captain Jack "This is the day you will always remember as the day you almost caught Captain Jack Sparrow."-captain jack sparrow "But why is the Rum gone?"-Captain Jack Sparrow "Is that the reason for the whole"-moves his arms around and looks drunk-Will Turner "Ye dont know what this is, do ye? Aztec gold."-Captain Barbossa "So there is a curse. Thats interesting."-Captain Jack Sparrow "You want pain? Try wearin a corset."-Elizabeth Swann "I hardly believe in ghost stories anymore, Captain Barbossa."-Elizabeth Swann "Ye best start believin in ghost stories Ms. Turner. You're in one."-Captain Barbossa "Hey. Your not dead." "Im not? So it is." jack turns around to see pirates then turns around again to see hes surrounded "Paelealelgle." pirates look at him funny "Paeelelalelaleleal. Pealelalealle. Parsley, parsnip, par-" "Parlay?" "Yes. Thats the one. Parlay."-Captain Jack Sparrow and crew of Black Pearl. "You wouldn't want to be doin that." "No, I assure you, I think I do." "Your funeral." barbossa sighs "Why wouldnt I wanna be doin this?"-Captain Jack Sparrow + Captain Barbossa Yo ho yo ho a pirates life for me. ~nef

04-04-2003, 09:37 AM	#132
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Yep. I think we're one the same page. __________________ "Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

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04-03-2003, 09:18 AM	#123
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	Yes... Elrond is half Elven, but had chosen to be Elf.

04-03-2003, 06:17 PM	#127
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	The original design of Elves is that they do not die. It was Melkor's tainting of the world that changed those designs. Thus, Elves can die because of great stresses to their bodies (ie, battle, or the extreme cold as seen at the crossing of the Helkaraxe), or because of great grief. None of that was part of the original design for Elves.