02-08-2009, 12:46 AM | #1 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 401
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Gandalf: Truly a Wizard?
Okay, so I was in humanities class, and my teacher refers to Gandalf as a "wizard who uses magic." I raised my hand to express my disagreement with my teacher, saying that Gandfalf was in the Maia group Istari, and his powers were provided to him by Illuvatar, just as Christ's disciples were given they power by God to perform miracles. My teacher disagrees; saying that Gandalf is just like Harry Potter; in that there is a force which can be used for evil or good. I try to compare the two books (now that Harry Potter has been introduced to the conversation), saying that in Middle Earth, there is a divine god who gives power to thoses in authority, and may allow them to use it for evil, because their evil actions ultimately follow his providencial plan. On the other hand, in Harry Potter, there is a force, like in Star Wars, and no divine being ruling over it (or anything) My teacher still disagrees. How can I show him what I mean?
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Elleth Valatari "We have come from God, and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil." — J.R.R. Tolkien |
02-08-2009, 12:51 AM | #2 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Ask him if he is familiar with "The Silmarillion". That would be a good starting point. From reading Hobbit and LOTR alone, I think Gandalf would appear like most any other 'wizard'. Indeed - that's how Men generally seemed to understand him.
But one can see that things are otherwise from the material in "The Silmarillion" - and the section on "The Istari" in Unfinished Tales. That latter would be a good one too. And - there's also some material in the appendices of LOTR that might help you - particularly portions from Appendix B, including; the prelude the the Third Age, and passages within the third age chronicles that speak about the Istari.
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02-08-2009, 12:53 AM | #3 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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PS: If this dialogue is happening in front of the entire class - it might also be good to take him aside and show him what you find after class is over, if that's possible to do.
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02-08-2009, 10:12 PM | #4 | |||||
Salt Miner
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: gone to Far Harad
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Teachers are people, and, unfortunately, people are frequently misinformed and often unfair. Valandil is right: be sure you do not confront your teacher in front of the class.
Your teacher is dead wrong. Tolkien wrote extensively on subject. Again, Valandil is correct: the whole of the first section of The Silmarillion, the story called “Ainulindalë”, which means “Music of the Ainur [Angels]”, is about the rebellion of the chief of the Ainur (angels), Melkor, against his Creator, Eru Ilúvatar. Sauron was Melkor’s right-hand man; the balrogs, including Durin’s Bane in Moria, were among the demons who rebelled with him and followed him. Tolkien wrote in a letter about the “Ainulindalë” to a man named Christopher Bretherton on July 16, 1964. The letter is published in Letters of JRR Tolkien; in these boards, people will usually refer to it as Letter 257, because that is its order in the book. (The letters are numbered from earliest to latest.) Quote:
Quote:
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To Letter 156 to his friend, the Jesuit priest Robert Murray, Tolkien added a footnote which reads, Quote:
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I regret that you are faced with this situation, EllethValatari. Perhaps things will work out well. Do not embarrass your teacher in front of your class. Your position is correct. I hope your teacher is decent, and will admit it. |
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02-09-2009, 09:43 AM | #5 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
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In defense of your teacher, EV, I would say that he is unlikely to know all this if he has read only LOTR and the Hobbit.
In the Hobbit Gandalf undoubtedly does seem a "common wizard". The same impression one would get from the first half of LOTR. Before the Gates of Moria Gandalf mutters a lot of spells in various mannish tongues, he expresses "professional interest" in rings: Quote:
You can read more about it here: http://www.entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=12900 |
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03-24-2009, 12:38 PM | #6 |
Enting
Join Date: Mar 2009
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