Hobbit race - Page 2

The Wizard from Milan · 03-04-2005, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halbarad of the Dunedain

Hobbits do not make sense in Tolkien's universe if we use our world logic.

Why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halbarad of the Dunedain

(Then again Shelob and Ungoliant were spiders beyond the size of men....)

Why (i.e. why do you claim that they don't make sense in Tolkien's universe)?

There is no food big enough?

me9996 · 03-04-2005, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElemmÃ*rÃ«

Commenting on the "center" button in a thread about Hobbits is off topic, spammy, and rude to boot.

Could one really claim that the Hobbits are less noble than the people of Gondor? In many ways (as much as I hate to admit it), they seem more so.

Sorry

Last Child of Ungoliant · 03-04-2005, 09:07 AM

and what else might not make sense? a dark lord that doesnt die when he is killed because his life is preserved by a ring?

ElemmÃrÃ« · 03-04-2005, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wizard from Milan

Why (i.e. why do you claim that they don't make sense in Tolkien's universe)?

There is no food big enough?

Which could indeed be why it's said Ungoliant devoured herself in the end. It makes as much sense as, say... dinosaurs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

and what else might not make sense? a dark lord that doesnt die when he is killed because his life is preserved by a ring?

It's not something we actually see, of course, but I know I've seen other stories where someone can't be killed because... say, their heart or soul is in another location. The theory at least makes sense...

Quote:

Originally Posted by me9996

Sorry

It's okay... just try to stop doing it so much.

me9996 · 03-11-2005, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

and what else might not make sense? a dark lord that doesnt die when he is killed because his life is preserved by a ring?

Magic doesn't allways make sen'ts, like my spelling.

Last Child of Ungoliant · 03-11-2005, 08:38 PM

who or what is ada, apart from a hindu lord of death, of course?

me9996 · 03-11-2005, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

who or what is ada, apart from a hindu lord of death, of course?

Oops,better change that, I ment were the valar live.

Last Child of Ungoliant · 03-11-2005, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me9996

Oops,better change that, I ment were the valar live.

Aman?
Valinor?
Valimar?

me9996 · 03-11-2005, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

Aman?
Valinor?
Valimar?

Arda? Is that it?

P.S.
Help! I'm traped in the 90 second rule!
Wait!
Oh... It only lasted 90 seconds

Last Child of Ungoliant · 03-11-2005, 08:46 PM

can't be arda, arda is the entire world, including ME, Aman, and the empty lands

me9996 · 03-11-2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

can't be arda, arda is the entire world, including ME, Aman, and the empty lands

Phooy!
I gess it's aman.
What are the empty lands?
Margoths empire?
So you're in Arda?

Haradrim · 03-28-2005, 11:39 PM

Valinor: Land where the Valar live
ME: LAnd where the races live
Arda: Depends on what youve read. Tolkien said its the world which Valinor and ME reside on but Chris Tolkien says his father noted somewhere that in fact Arda is the solar system in which the world resides. I prefer to believe what Tolkien wrote down himself.

Also Im glad this is being discussed. I think this was mentioned somwehere else but I cant remember where.

As to the matter on which this thread was based as all of this is rather off topic. If I remember correctly when the men first encountered the elves in the SIl some stayed with them and some went over the mountains in the north now known as Mordor. They went into ME and started up some of their own kingdoms. Later Isildur came up and took control. My opinion is that the hobbits were in fact one of these peoples of men who crossed over. They went all the way over. They built mounds for homes as did the mound people of Mississippi in our world. They evolved into shorter stouter people and their isolation lead to their being cautious of outsiders. Its actually quite possible for this to happen. Evolution can work rather quickly. of course thats if I remember correctly and IMO.

Lefty Scaevola · 03-30-2005, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haradrim

Arda: Depends on what youve read. Tolkien said its the world which Valinor and ME reside on but Chris Tolkien says his father noted somewhere that in fact Arda is the solar system in which the world resides.

The solar system bit is from JRRT's uncompleted rewrite of the SIL describe in the 'Myths transfromed' chapter of 'Mogorths Ring' of the History of Middle Earth. JRRT was going to change the Earth/Arda creation-Valar-Melkor stories (Flat Earth created by itself with moon and sun later, and then the earth made round when numenor was destroyed) to ones more traking the real formation of the solar system, Sun first, then planets, (with minor reference to the same stuff going on elsewhere with other groups of Ainur). It was going to include a part about Melkor trying the forcibly espouse the the Maiar Arien (in and controlling the Sun) to get what he believed her power over the "Flame Imperishable". Trying to rape the Sun turned out rather badly for him. Anyway, it was too incomplete for Christopher T to incorporate it into the published SIL.

Last Child of Ungoliant · 03-30-2005, 10:12 AM

found this:
Encyclopaedia of Arda if you go to 'Men', it gives a geneaology type thingy

Morgoth the Elfbit · 03-30-2005, 09:33 PM

So TOlkien in fact wanted their to be other worlds with other Valar controlling them and other races. THats really cool but also a little wierd I dont know if I would have bought it. I like the way Chris put it in the Sil.

Lefty Scaevola · 03-31-2005, 12:06 AM

Except for the Sun and Moon, he was not going to write about others worlds/bodies, other than to acknowlege their existance and that there were other Ainur out there building them. His purpose was to make Arda more real and to make suspension of disbelief easier with regard to the creation of Arda.
This process was to include a provenance of the stories of creation and the first age, that they were mostly not had directly from surviving elves into the form they were written, but were mostly oral tradition, and were passed through Numenor, and partialy mixed with the mythology of the Edain, so that any part that was not "real" enough could be dissmissed by the reader as a mythological add on, poetic license of some scribe (like Bilbo), or other corruption of the history without degraqding his suspension of disbelief and getting into the story.

Morgoth the Elfbit · 03-31-2005, 12:14 AM

well I would hope he wouldnt talk about the others Im just saying that even the idea of them would shake my own reality of it for some odd deeper reason.

Elanor · 10-12-2005, 06:55 PM

Hobbits are related to the Rohirrim, aren't they? Could they also be related to Wild men?

03-28-2005, 11:39 PM	#32
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	Valinor: Land where the Valar live ME: LAnd where the races live Arda: Depends on what youve read. Tolkien said its the world which Valinor and ME reside on but Chris Tolkien says his father noted somewhere that in fact Arda is the solar system in which the world resides. I prefer to believe what Tolkien wrote down himself. Also Im glad this is being discussed. I think this was mentioned somwehere else but I cant remember where. As to the matter on which this thread was based as all of this is rather off topic. If I remember correctly when the men first encountered the elves in the SIl some stayed with them and some went over the mountains in the north now known as Mordor. They went into ME and started up some of their own kingdoms. Later Isildur came up and took control. My opinion is that the hobbits were in fact one of these peoples of men who crossed over. They went all the way over. They built mounds for homes as did the mound people of Mississippi in our world. They evolved into shorter stouter people and their isolation lead to their being cautious of outsiders. Its actually quite possible for this to happen. Evolution can work rather quickly. of course thats if I remember correctly and IMO. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

03-30-2005, 09:33 PM	#35
Morgoth the Elfbit Hobbit Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: I split my time between Mordor and your Imagination Posts: 30	So TOlkien in fact wanted their to be other worlds with other Valar controlling them and other races. THats really cool but also a little wierd I dont know if I would have bought it. I like the way Chris put it in the Sil. __________________ Newly Reincarnated from Haradrim Here is my permanent apology for off-topicing. If I do it, which i will, I am sorry. I feel bad about it but being an elfbit messes with your head and things get wonky so spamming is almost inevitable. There will be good replys but for when I do off-topic I am deeply sorry. Offical title: Morgoth the Elfbit: Un-Official Court Jester of the Entmoot At Your Service.... BOW TO ME! Miranda Otto is hot! I Kinda Like Feanor.... (meep)

03-31-2005, 12:06 AM	#36
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	Except for the Sun and Moon, he was not going to write about others worlds/bodies, other than to acknowlege their existance and that there were other Ainur out there building them. His purpose was to make Arda more real and to make suspension of disbelief easier with regard to the creation of Arda. This process was to include a provenance of the stories of creation and the first age, that they were mostly not had directly from surviving elves into the form they were written, but were mostly oral tradition, and were passed through Numenor, and partialy mixed with the mythology of the Edain, so that any part that was not "real" enough could be dissmissed by the reader as a mythological add on, poetic license of some scribe (like Bilbo), or other corruption of the history without degraqding his suspension of disbelief and getting into the story. __________________ Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 03-31-2005 at 12:15 AM.

03-31-2005, 12:14 AM	#37
Morgoth the Elfbit Hobbit Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: I split my time between Mordor and your Imagination Posts: 30	well I would hope he wouldnt talk about the others Im just saying that even the idea of them would shake my own reality of it for some odd deeper reason. __________________ Newly Reincarnated from Haradrim Here is my permanent apology for off-topicing. If I do it, which i will, I am sorry. I feel bad about it but being an elfbit messes with your head and things get wonky so spamming is almost inevitable. There will be good replys but for when I do off-topic I am deeply sorry. Offical title: Morgoth the Elfbit: Un-Official Court Jester of the Entmoot At Your Service.... BOW TO ME! Miranda Otto is hot! I Kinda Like Feanor.... (meep)

10-12-2005, 06:55 PM	#38
Elanor Hobbit in the Music Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Westmarch Posts: 1,111	Hobbits are related to the Rohirrim, aren't they? Could they also be related to Wild men? __________________ Middle Earth Crossword Puzzle on the Tolkien Site of DOOM Segovia Mazes

03-04-2005, 09:07 AM	#23
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	and what else might not make sense? a dark lord that doesnt die when he is killed because his life is preserved by a ring?

03-11-2005, 08:38 PM	#26
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	who or what is ada, apart from a hindu lord of death, of course?

03-11-2005, 08:46 PM	#30
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	can't be arda, arda is the entire world, including ME, Aman, and the empty lands

03-30-2005, 10:12 AM	#34
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	found this: Encyclopaedia of Arda if you go to 'Men', it gives a geneaology type thingy

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