Conservation of Energy

UnStashable · 01-08-2002, 12:31 AM

Im kinda Curious about what happened to all the maia that were "slain" . Like the Balrog Slain by Gandalf or all the other Balrogs and other Maia that were casulties in the Siege of Utumno, Angband , Fall of the lamps etc. (if this applies under those last 3 apply under different balrogs of differnt times im sorry).

Wayfarer · 01-08-2002, 04:52 PM

they lost the power they had invested in that body, just like sauron lost the power he had invested in the ring.

The more power they had invested, the more they would have lost. Usually, a 'physica' maia, such as a balrog or an istar, would have lost the greater part of thier power.

Ñólendil · 01-08-2002, 06:52 PM

Tolkien says in a letter, interestingly, that Gandalf met God when he died and was sent back by Him.

UnStashable · 01-10-2002, 06:50 PM

Thanks Inoldonil but I always assumed that Gandalf was the exception rather than the rule. Also didn't the Valar ask Eru if it was ok before "clothing" the Wizards in Flesh.

Thank you also Wayfarer but part of my question is where does the "power" or energy GO when they "loose" it. The title of Post is from the Law of conservation of energy (basically, Energy cannont be created or destoyed merely converted to different forms or into matter.)

thanks again,Im sorry if i seem ungrateful, im not, really.
thanks again.

Wayfarer · 01-10-2002, 07:25 PM

I owuld assume it just dissipated, so that it was still there, but unrecoverable.

I.E. It changed into a form that couldn't be used.

Bacchus · 01-11-2002, 07:39 PM

Well, there are two approaches to this.

1. If you want to look at it from a thermodynamic standpoint, the universe tends to move from a state of high energy and low entropy to the opposite. Disembodiment of an Ainu follows this stricture, as the organized, high energy state reverts to a disorganized, low energy state.

2. 1 really misses the point, however. The innate 'power' posessed by the Rational Incarnates had nothing to do with physical laws. Their powers derived from the nature of their gifts from Iluvatar.

Comic Book Guy · 01-11-2002, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Also didn't the Valar ask Eru if it was ok before "clothing" the Wizards in Flesh.

Well it says in Unfinished Tales, that Manwe may have consulted Eru on the matter.

bropous · 01-13-2002, 01:42 PM

"...innate 'power' posessed by the Rational Incarnates had nothing to do with physical laws. Their powers derived from the nature of their gifts from Iluvatar..."

Perfect answer, Bacchus.

01-08-2002, 12:31 AM	#1
UnStashable Enting Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 52	Conservation of Energy Im kinda Curious about what happened to all the maia that were "slain" . Like the Balrog Slain by Gandalf or all the other Balrogs and other Maia that were casulties in the Siege of Utumno, Angband , Fall of the lamps etc. (if this applies under those last 3 apply under different balrogs of differnt times im sorry). __________________ This elevator only goes to the basement, and sombody made an awful mess down there

01-08-2002, 04:52 PM	#2
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	they lost the power they had invested in that body, just like sauron lost the power he had invested in the ring. The more power they had invested, the more they would have lost. Usually, a 'physica' maia, such as a balrog or an istar, would have lost the greater part of thier power. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-08-2002, 06:52 PM	#3
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Tolkien says in a letter, interestingly, that Gandalf met God when he died and was sent back by Him. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

01-10-2002, 06:50 PM	#4
UnStashable Enting Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 52	Thanks Inoldonil but I always assumed that Gandalf was the exception rather than the rule. Also didn't the Valar ask Eru if it was ok before "clothing" the Wizards in Flesh. Thank you also Wayfarer but part of my question is where does the "power" or energy GO when they "loose" it. The title of Post is from the Law of conservation of energy (basically, Energy cannont be created or destoyed merely converted to different forms or into matter.) thanks again,Im sorry if i seem ungrateful, im not, really. thanks again. __________________ This elevator only goes to the basement, and sombody made an awful mess down there

01-10-2002, 07:25 PM	#5
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	I owuld assume it just dissipated, so that it was still there, but unrecoverable. I.E. It changed into a form that couldn't be used. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-11-2002, 07:39 PM	#6
Bacchus Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Houston TX USA Posts: 245	Well, there are two approaches to this. 1. If you want to look at it from a thermodynamic standpoint, the universe tends to move from a state of high energy and low entropy to the opposite. Disembodiment of an Ainu follows this stricture, as the organized, high energy state reverts to a disorganized, low energy state. 2. 1 really misses the point, however. The innate 'power' posessed by the Rational Incarnates had nothing to do with physical laws. Their powers derived from the nature of their gifts from Iluvatar. __________________ Yet neither by wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon, would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of Men. Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.

01-13-2002, 01:42 PM	#8
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	"...innate 'power' posessed by the Rational Incarnates had nothing to do with physical laws. Their powers derived from the nature of their gifts from Iluvatar..." Perfect answer, Bacchus. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

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