More linguistic ponderings...

Wayfarer · 12-06-2001, 08:14 PM

What on earth could Kwalruk mean?

might be from 'ngwal'? and 'ruc'?

I hate it when I forget a translation!

Comic Book Guy · 12-06-2001, 08:30 PM

Kwal means 'Die in Pain' in Quenya I believe. What language are you talking about?

Wayfarer · 12-06-2001, 08:44 PM

I can't remember!

I named my orc character's scimitar Kwalruk... And then I fogot what it meant! I can't even remember exactly what language it's in!

If it's bastardised quenya (I have a thing about not giving orc-things real elvish names) then it would be something like 'painful ruin' (assuming ruk=Rucina 'ruin).

Hmm... I suppose that works.

Ñólendil · 12-06-2001, 09:00 PM

Looks Sindarin to me, but you know me. Could be related to Quenderin rúcima 'terrible', or rúcina 'confused, shattered, disordered, ruined'. Still your 'ruk' would appear to echo 'uruk' of the Black Speech, apparently borrowed from Primitive Quendian.

Wayfarer · 12-06-2001, 09:11 PM

Yes. I'm very fond of using primitive elvish words for orc names...

It could have been primitive elvish (ruk) or primitive queya... I don't know.

Wayfarer~linguistic dunderhead since the first age.

Ñólendil · 12-06-2001, 09:35 PM

Well the Quenya word for 'Orc' ('Urco', before the Noldor came in contact with the Sindar the meaning of this word was vague and may be translated 'bogey', though) is derived from Primitive Quendian 'urkô' this being a form of the stem RUKU according to Helgeh Fauskanger. Logically, if Quendering Urco comes from Primitive Quendian urkô, you won't find the form 'ruk' in between (in Primitive Quenya, I mean). So you probably got it from Primitive Quendian ruk-, another form of RUKU.

I don't know where you got kwal.

rashbold · 12-20-2001, 11:46 PM

Can't be Sindarin. The diagraph KW didn't exist in Common Telerin (from which descended Amanya Telerin, Sindarin and the other tongues of the Nelyarin Eldar), as it shifted to P early on. However, it does exist in Vanyarin and Ñoldorin Quenya. But I can't recall seeing it in any of Tolkien's published writings. Pseudo-bastardized Quenya probably.

Ñólendil · 12-22-2001, 04:03 AM

Thanks for the clarifications rashbold. Kwalruk belongs to Pseudo-Bastardin Quenya then, the language descended from Primitive Quendian in the time between half remembered Elvish wordlists and the great Confusion of Shannon, the most sorrowful battle of the Eldar, in which all their hard work came to a big, whopping pile of Andamunda-dung.

Wayfarer · 12-22-2001, 05:08 PM

Faramir.
Troll.
David Day.

Don't make me go there, Dylan!

Ñólendil · 12-24-2001, 01:58 AM

*clears throat and shuffles papers*

Right. Upon further consideration, I, Dylan Standlea, would like to recant my earlier statement wherein controversial linguistic matters were disgussed. I henceforth shall remain peculiarly silent and discreet in the matter of Andamunda-dung and bastardized Quenya, pending the promised withheld status of Faramir-, Troll- and Day-matter. Thank you.

*furtively steps away from the podium, shifty-eyed, and tip-toes off the stage*

CardenIAntauraNauco · 12-25-2001, 11:37 PM

Kwa means full in primitive elvish.
And uk is a common ending. I think that's your language but I think Full is wrong.
I cant imagine you naming a sword full-something.
Sound right?
Possibly "fist"

12-06-2001, 08:14 PM	#1
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	More linguistic ponderings... What on earth could Kwalruk mean? might be from 'ngwal'? and 'ruc'? I hate it when I forget a translation! __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-06-2001, 08:44 PM	#3
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	I can't remember! I named my orc character's scimitar Kwalruk... And then I fogot what it meant! I can't even remember exactly what language it's in! If it's bastardised quenya (I have a thing about not giving orc-things real elvish names) then it would be something like 'painful ruin' (assuming ruk=Rucina 'ruin). Hmm... I suppose that works. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-06-2001, 09:00 PM	#4
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Looks Sindarin to me, but you know me. Could be related to Quenderin rúcima 'terrible', or rúcina 'confused, shattered, disordered, ruined'. Still your 'ruk' would appear to echo 'uruk' of the Black Speech, apparently borrowed from Primitive Quendian. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

12-06-2001, 09:11 PM	#5
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Yes. I'm very fond of using primitive elvish words for orc names... It could have been primitive elvish (ruk) or primitive queya... I don't know. Wayfarer~linguistic dunderhead since the first age. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-06-2001, 09:35 PM	#6
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Well the Quenya word for 'Orc' ('Urco', before the Noldor came in contact with the Sindar the meaning of this word was vague and may be translated 'bogey', though) is derived from Primitive Quendian 'urkô' this being a form of the stem RUKU according to Helgeh Fauskanger. Logically, if Quendering Urco comes from Primitive Quendian urkô, you won't find the form 'ruk' in between (in Primitive Quenya, I mean). So you probably got it from Primitive Quendian ruk-, another form of RUKU. I don't know where you got kwal. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

12-06-2001, 08:30 PM	#2
Comic Book Guy Best Ex-Administrator ever Join Date: May 2001 Location: Ireland Posts: 60,547	Kwal means 'Die in Pain' in Quenya I believe. What language are you talking about?

12-20-2001, 11:46 PM	#7
rashbold Hobbit Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Manila, Philippines Posts: 26	Can't be Sindarin. The diagraph KW didn't exist in Common Telerin (from which descended Amanya Telerin, Sindarin and the other tongues of the Nelyarin Eldar), as it shifted to P early on. However, it does exist in Vanyarin and Ñoldorin Quenya. But I can't recall seeing it in any of Tolkien's published writings. Pseudo-bastardized Quenya probably. __________________ Rashbold, Lambengolmo Rómello

12-22-2001, 04:03 AM	#8
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Thanks for the clarifications rashbold. Kwalruk belongs to Pseudo-Bastardin Quenya then, the language descended from Primitive Quendian in the time between half remembered Elvish wordlists and the great Confusion of Shannon, the most sorrowful battle of the Eldar, in which all their hard work came to a big, whopping pile of Andamunda-dung. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

12-22-2001, 05:08 PM	#9
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Faramir. Troll. David Day. Don't make me go there, Dylan! __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-24-2001, 01:58 AM	#10
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	clears throat and shuffles papers Right. Upon further consideration, I, Dylan Standlea, would like to recant my earlier statement wherein controversial linguistic matters were disgussed. I henceforth shall remain peculiarly silent and discreet in the matter of Andamunda-dung and bastardized Quenya, pending the promised withheld status of Faramir-, Troll- and Day-matter. Thank you. furtively steps away from the podium, shifty-eyed, and tip-toes off the stage __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

12-25-2001, 11:37 PM	#11
CardenIAntauraNauco Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: rural oklahoma Posts: 324	Kwa means full in primitive elvish. And uk is a common ending. I think that's your language but I think Full is wrong. I cant imagine you naming a sword full-something. Sound right? Possibly "fist" __________________ "We will have peace","Yes we will have peace...we will have peace when you and all your works have perished - and the works of your dark lord to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar,Saruman,and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me and I percieve only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just - as it was not,for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine, for your own profit you desired-even so, what will you say of your Torches in westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of Hornburg, after he was dead. When you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows, I will have peace with you and Orthanc. So much for the House of Eorl. A lesser son of greater Sires am I, but I do not need to lick your fingers. Turn elsewither for I fear your voice has lost it's charm.

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