What happened to Belerand?

[ArwenEvenstar]

I'm confused because in FOTR Gimli mentions something about Durin lookling in Nimrodel. And Haldir mentions something about no Dwarf ever entering Lothlorien since Durin's day. Are Middle-Earth and Beleriand the same place? I AM CONFUSED

Also is the caves of the Wood Elves(Legolas' kin)Nargotand?(I think that's how you spell it...)

[Ñólendil]

Nargothrond. The water Durin looked into was the Mirrormere. Nimrodel was a river that flowed into Lothlorien. In the First Age 'Middle-earth' embraced all lands in Arda except for Valinor, Araman, Avathar and Tol Eressëa. In the Second Age it embraced all lands except for those just mentioned in addition to Númenor. In the Third Age -- since the Blessed Realm and Westernesse were gone -- 'Middle-earth' embraced all lands, it was = to 'Earth'.

Look at a map from the LR. You should see 'Lindon', or at any rate a 'Forlindon' and a 'Harlindon' ('North Lindon' and a 'South Lindon'). All those lands west of the Ered Luin was Lindon, formerly known as 'Ossiriand'.

Beleriand was a region in Northwestern Middle-earth, most of it was destroyed at the end of the First Age, so that all that remained in the time of the LR was Lindon. Thranduil's Halls in the Woodland Realm could thus not be Nargothrond. Those particular Halls (of Thranduil) were in fact made in imitation of Menegroth, the Thousand Caves of Doriath in Beleriand, but no Kingdom could match those.

I'm confused about your references to Lothlorien and Nimrodel. Did you think that these are places in Beleriand?

[Sister Golden Hair]

I have always wondered, was the Thousand Caves underground? I know that Finrod fashioned Nargothrond after Menegroth. Nargothrond was underground. At least its fortress or palace was. Above was the realm of Nargothrond. Right?

[Lord_Ov_The_Thunder]

I think that at the end of the first age, in the war of wrath due to the battles in the north and the wrath of the valar, the Great Sea rose up in wrath and flooded the whole land of Beleriand, and most of the High Elves (Noldor) and the sindar were already hiding in Ossiriand, while the edain joined the Hosts of the West and fought Morgoth, and i think that somewhere i don't remember which book...said that the Valar were concerned about the edain no to be hurt from the rising of the sea, and they protected them, while ofcourse Ered Luin is ofcourse the Blue Mountains where the dwarves used to live(Nogrod, Belogest) and it was mentioned that their mansions were ruined and so they went to Moria and swelled there numbers, while Gil-Galad ruled the remenants of the Noldor of the houses of Finarfin and Fingolfin, and the rest of the Noldor (house of Feanor) dwelt in Eregion under the grandson of Feanor Celebrimbor son of Curufin (i think) and they were neighbours with Moria and Durin's folk, and friendship grew between them as never was between elves and dwarves, and also with Lorien which was near Moria and as Gandalf said "These were happy times" before the return of the shadow.......

Menegeroth was not wholly under ground for it was fashioned in some hills between the forests of Doriath (Neldoreth, Region) and it was drawn in a picture by Ted Nasmith..... while Nargothrond was under the ground at the banks of the river Narog.

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I have always wondered, was the Thousand Caves underground?

Would they not have to be, by definition? Or how else could we picture it? Hillsides full of smaller holes. Now, I think it must have been a cave complex. I wonder how it was lit?

(BTW can Elves see in the dark - are their sight abilities in this regard ever commented upon?)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Kirinki54


Would they not have to be, by definition? Or how else could we picture it? Hillsides full of smaller holes. Now, I think it must have been a cave complex. I wonder how it was lit?

(BTW can Elves see in the dark - are their sight abilities in this regard ever commented upon?)

All I know, is that tolkien says the Elves had superior sight. I don't know if that included the dark. When Haldir met Frodo and company, and he asked Legolas and the Hobbits to come up in the tree, the Elves raised a lantern to view the Hobbits.

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
All I know, is that tolkien says the Elves had superior sight. I don't know if that included the dark. When Haldir met Frodo and company, and he asked Legolas and the Hobbits to come up in the tree, the Elves raised a lantern to view the Hobbits.

Good point! But I note that the Elves say that even the Hobbits breathe loud enough to be shot in the dark. So if they could not see in the dark, they had compensation by other senses.

[Wayfarer]

Some orcs have night-sight. It follows that some elves would have as well.

[ArwenEvenstar]

Originally posted by Inoldonil
I'm confused about your references to Lothlorien and Nimrodel. Did you think that these are places in Beleriand?

I didn't know Beleriand was in ME. I thought it was a land unto its self.......So I actually thought; I don't know what I think.(Lol that's sounds dumb dosen't it??)

[Wayfarer]

Yep. Beleriand was to the northwest of ME. Actually, it was the land just west of the blue mountains, which border on the shire.

[Ñólendil]

I didn't know Beleriand was in ME. I thought it was a land unto its self.......

What I don't understand is why 'Lothlorien' and 'Nimrodel' would make you think of Beleriand.