Isaac and Ishmael

Darth Tater · 10-05-2001, 12:38 PM

There will, of course, be a West Wing discussion thread here soon, but I thought, since this special episode stood apart, that it should have its own thread.

I honestly didn't think this episode would work. I knew that, if anyone could pull it off, it was Aaron Sorkin, but I expected it to be either a Hollywoodalization of recent events, or else total hogwash (possibly a combination of both.) What we got was the exact opposite and, I feel, exactly what the nation needed.

I've had enough of celebrities getting preachy, talking about their feelings, and being the general idiots that they are. It's really sad that Americans revere people like Rosie O'Donnell, who's probably got the worlds lowest IQ, ever. Though this episode was written as a lesson, it was not preachy. It was rather a rationalization of recent events. Instead of going crazy, saying "kill them all!" (ok ok, Toby did do that, but we all knew what he meant

), the characters on the show layed out the information in a way that finally made it make sense.

When Josh said "Islamic Extremist is to Islamic as Blank is to Christianity," my mom said "this could be dangerious!" She was right, it could have been. There were any number of answers that could have gone up there, and the students volunteered a number of them. However, all their answers were just not quite right. They were judgemental, and reflected the way most people seem to be reacting to those who commited these crimes (it seems that, whether or not we want to, most of us have stereotyped all Muslims. God knows I have). Then Josh filled in the Blank with KKK, and it all made sense. It finally clicked for me. These people aren't just Muslims. they are like the KKK, a group that none of us want to associate with Christianity, and that we all know does not give any representation of the views of Christians. When this point was made, I finally got it, I finally realized how these people think, who they are, and, more importantly, who they are not. That was the most important moment of realization for me since these events took place. Thank you Aaron Sorkin, thank you.

***gdl96*** · 10-05-2001, 10:03 PM

I don't watch the show...but that comparison of Islamic Extremists to the KKK is the best comparison that has come out of all this!! Now it completely makes sense. Wow.

cee2lee2 · 10-07-2001, 09:42 AM

A lot of the professional critics said the show was too preachy, but I thought it was very well done. The analogy to the KKK finally put things in perspective. Emotionally I, too, have been tarring all Muslims with the same brush, even though I know better.

I really like the way the two story lines of the students and the interrogation were interwoven. And the way the President's wife told the Biblical story of Isaac and Ishmael was a good point -- I think we all do forget that the brothers came together to bury thier father. It was also a good reminder that this conflict is ages old and there is not likely to be a quick or easy solution.

Darth Tater · 10-07-2001, 10:03 AM

Though Josh did give it a few million years too much age (he said 73 million, more like 6 thousand), but hey, we can forgive him, he did get shot just a year ago after all

10-05-2001, 12:38 PM	#1
Darth Tater The man Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: MA Posts: 4,572	Isaac and Ishmael There will, of course, be a West Wing discussion thread here soon, but I thought, since this special episode stood apart, that it should have its own thread. I honestly didn't think this episode would work. I knew that, if anyone could pull it off, it was Aaron Sorkin, but I expected it to be either a Hollywoodalization of recent events, or else total hogwash (possibly a combination of both.) What we got was the exact opposite and, I feel, exactly what the nation needed. I've had enough of celebrities getting preachy, talking about their feelings, and being the general idiots that they are. It's really sad that Americans revere people like Rosie O'Donnell, who's probably got the worlds lowest IQ, ever. Though this episode was written as a lesson, it was not preachy. It was rather a rationalization of recent events. Instead of going crazy, saying "kill them all!" (ok ok, Toby did do that, but we all knew what he meant ), the characters on the show layed out the information in a way that finally made it make sense. When Josh said "Islamic Extremist is to Islamic as Blank is to Christianity," my mom said "this could be dangerious!" She was right, it could have been. There were any number of answers that could have gone up there, and the students volunteered a number of them. However, all their answers were just not quite right. They were judgemental, and reflected the way most people seem to be reacting to those who commited these crimes (it seems that, whether or not we want to, most of us have stereotyped all Muslims. God knows I have). Then Josh filled in the Blank with KKK, and it all made sense. It finally clicked for me. These people aren't just Muslims. they are like the KKK, a group that none of us want to associate with Christianity, and that we all know does not give any representation of the views of Christians. When this point was made, I finally got it, I finally realized how these people think, who they are, and, more importantly, who they are not. That was the most important moment of realization for me since these events took place. Thank you Aaron Sorkin, thank you. __________________ Visit the worlds greatest webpage! No, not The Tolkien Trail! Just click this! The Tolkien Trail ~Camelot

10-07-2001, 10:03 AM	#4
Darth Tater The man Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: MA Posts: 4,572	Though Josh did give it a few million years too much age (he said 73 million, more like 6 thousand), but hey, we can forgive him, he did get shot just a year ago after all __________________ Visit the worlds greatest webpage! No, not The Tolkien Trail! Just click this! The Tolkien Trail ~Camelot

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10-05-2001, 10:03 PM	#2
*gdl96* the greg the admin Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: NJ Posts: 2,101	I don't watch the show...but that comparison of Islamic Extremists to the KKK is the best comparison that has come out of all this!! Now it completely makes sense. Wow.

10-07-2001, 09:42 AM	#3
cee2lee2 Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: 2nd star to the left..... Posts: 566	A lot of the professional critics said the show was too preachy, but I thought it was very well done. The analogy to the KKK finally put things in perspective. Emotionally I, too, have been tarring all Muslims with the same brush, even though I know better. I really like the way the two story lines of the students and the interrogation were interwoven. And the way the President's wife told the Biblical story of Isaac and Ishmael was a good point -- I think we all do forget that the brothers came together to bury thier father. It was also a good reminder that this conflict is ages old and there is not likely to be a quick or easy solution.