Minor Injustice

Starr Polish · 01-10-2004, 02:20 AM

...and how it should be dealt with.

This is just somethign that's been on my mind today, because there was a sad attempt at a walk-out by my class at noon. It was over-of all things-the fact that all of the underclassmen were being rewarded for improving upon standardized tests which seniors were exempt from this year. I can see why they're angry, however, because we have taken the same tests for three years and had no reward whatsoever, and we are also the class with the highest percentage of the four years in school currently, and massively improved from freshmen to junior year.

It has caused a lot of animosity and anger between students and administration, and fellow students who disagree. The underclassmen, of course, see it as completely fair (though they would be on a walk-out in a heartbeat if they were in our shoes), and many of the seniors are infuriated.

My stand? Yeah, it's unfair, but life's unfair, and we should be acting like the almost adults we are, not spoiled six year olds.

So...my main point is: Are things like walk-outs and protests actually worth doing for small injustices that are just a part of life? Or are they, as I see, a waste of time and energy?

Feel free to expand upon the topic as well.

Wayfarer · 01-10-2004, 02:28 AM

Heh. I thought the petty spats and stuff were just a part of university culture. It seems High Schools are doing a much better job of that these days than when I went to one. (way back when)

Seriously, though, this is something that's very common among certain parts of the american culture. The pettiness, I mean. And while I of course support protests against injustice, I don't think this really falls under that category.

jerseydevil · 01-10-2004, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Seriously, though, this is something that's very common among certain parts of the american culture. The pettiness, I mean.

The pettiness is not reserved to just parts of the American culture. The pettiness is worldwide and no different.

Starr Polish · 01-10-2004, 02:42 AM

I agree, this isn't a true injustice, just a crappy time for this certain incentive to do well on standardized tests to fall for the senior class of this year.

I'm getting really sick of hearing that I'm "out of touch" or just "mean" for thinking we should all grow up. "It's so unfair." Yeah, life's unfair. I'd rather spend my energy dealing with bigger things in the school district, like the huge issue of harassment. It is poorly dealt with in my school, despite attempts to lessen it, and people can get waived or ignored because of sports. I think that's a little more important than "Dang, we can't opt out of a final."

I'm not saying walk-outs and protests are wrong. Just stupid ones

Hemel · 01-10-2004, 06:39 AM

I suppose in a way you could look at it as a back-handed compliment ... that you didn't need incentives to improve and were self-motivated

(Which in my thoughts is a better way in schooling anyway.)

Yeah, it does look unfair, but who knows what the underneath motivation is ... maybe the school is being assessed in a different way so results suddenly become really important for the school (they're doing that over here - but it isn't necessarily a good thing, I think). So the situation for the school may have changed, which is why they're doing things differently now.

For me, yes, I think walk-outs and protests have their place, but like you say, not for small things. There was one recently here, from just one little site of an international firm over something very small and silly that occurred, and that walk-out soon got the problem fixed. But that one, although it was a small incident that triggered it, did have two very big principles at stake (a gender issue and a conditions of employment issue), and my view is that that protest, because of the bigger issues, was worth it.

But like you said, the only thing with your school issue is unfairness ... but even that may not be so if the situation has changed recently. I'm with you, things like harassment are the places where energy should go.

The other thing, I suppose, is that walk outs and protests always hurt someone. Like when people go on strike, and those of us who've maybe saved all year for a holiday suddenly can't get away ...

So it's a question also of weighing up hurts - because obviously the striking people think they are hurt in some way also, otherwise they wouldn't strike. But with your school thing, I'm inclined to think the balance of hurts goes the other way - okay the seniors are a bit hurt because they didn't get particular incentives, but, assuming that the incentives are things like the odd burger here and there, so not something like a million dollars every time you pass a test

, then I don't really see the point of possibly damaging their education, the school, using up resources to deal with it that could be better used elsewhere, and so on. Like you say, maybe they should behave like the nearly adults they are, and maybe even be pleased that younger people are having opportunities and getting benefits they didn't get.

just laughing now .... because parents say that kind of thing ... (Help! I'm turning into my mum ...

)

***gdl96*** · 01-10-2004, 06:35 PM

What's the reward the underclassmen are getting?

Starr Polish · 01-10-2004, 07:24 PM

They can opt out of one of their final exams, which happen to be twenty percent of our semester grade. A teacher can't refuse that they opt out of it, either. It's part of the "no child left behind" bull. I have a lot of problems with the reward itself, how it's being issued, and the way it was told to the school as well, but that's another thread.

jerseydevil · 01-10-2004, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starr Polish
They can opt out of one of their final exams, which happen to be twenty percent of our semester grade. A teacher can't refuse that they opt out of it, either. It's part of the "no child left behind" bull.

Can you please explain how that is part of "No Child Left Behind"?

***gdl96*** · 01-11-2004, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starr Polish
They can opt out of one of their final exams, which happen to be twenty percent of our semester grade. A teacher can't refuse that they opt out of it, either. It's part of the "no child left behind" bull. I have a lot of problems with the reward itself, how it's being issued, and the way it was told to the school as well, but that's another thread.

Hmm. In my high school, if you are a senior and you get straight A's and no more than one B in a class for the year, you don't have to take the final for that class. That's the only motivation I have left now to do well in school.

As a senior, I guess I'd be pretty annoyed about that too if it happened to my school. Although I must say I'm somewhat surprised with all the protesting and stuff by seniors, because usually seniors tend not to care about anything anymore. I know I don't.

Starr Polish · 01-11-2004, 01:39 PM

We don't have to take finals our second semester if we get a B+ or higher in the class (with the exceptions of Government class and English IV/Advanced Comp). Yet another reason I think it's kind of stupid my classmates walked out.

Well, a lot of the seniors that did walk out either have easy classes (no higher math or science), are graduating at semester, and/or just like to throw hissy fits when they don't get their way.

And JD, I was informed by the school through their announcement that it was part of "no child left behind." And I still think it has been and always will be almost entirely bull.

jerseydevil · 01-11-2004, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starr Polish
And JD, I was informed by the school through their announcement that it was part of "no child left behind." And I still think it has been and always will be almost entirely bull.

That's good that you think it is and always will be entirely bull. It's funny though how you don't seem to really know anything about it. Your school might have said it is part of "No Child Left Behind" - but if that was the case it would be NATIONWIDE.

Hemel · 01-11-2004, 06:16 PM

"No Child Left Behind" .. sounds a bit like your school's been taking lessons from the film 'Lilo and Stich' ....

***azalea*** · 01-11-2004, 06:53 PM

I think it's the testing that is part of No Child etc.

Starr Polish · 01-11-2004, 06:58 PM

Yes, the testing is part of "No Child Left Behind." So our school doesn't lose funding, they've been giving the students incentive to do well on the test. My class never received any of the promised incentives. What's worse is, our school's testing scores are actually very high, so it is extremely hard for us to improve by the percentages that are required by the program.

Please don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about. I get belittled enough at school for speaking my mind, I don't need it here.

jerseydevil · 01-11-2004, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hemel
"No Child Left Behind" .. sounds a bit like your school's been taking lessons from the film 'Lilo and Stich' ....

jerseydevil · 01-11-2004, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starr Polish
Please don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about. I get belittled enough at school for speaking my mind, I don't need it here.

Well then give some indication that you know what you are talking about. You don't seem to understand "No Child Left Behind" - but you think it's a bunch of bull.

You were complaining about students opting out of their final exams - this has NOTHING to do with No Child Left Behind. You seemed to indicate it was when you said -

Quote:

They can opt out of one of their final exams, which happen to be twenty percent of our semester grade. A teacher can't refuse that they opt out of it, either. It's part of the "no child left behind" bull.

Hemel · 01-12-2004, 05:31 AM

Just in case you hadn't realised, JD, my comment on 'Lilo and Stich' was a joke. (Although it does have to be said that that particular film was ruined for me by what seemed propaganda for an ideology ...

)

Okay JD, you gave a load of references about this 'child left behind' stuff. I did a quick scan of a few, but can't find an easy way in - in other words an explanation of exactly what it is (though I did find a couple of lines), how they've defined the problem, and what they intend to do about it.

But you seem to know something about it - so how's about helping the rest of us by writing a summary of the facts?

01-10-2004, 02:20 AM	#1
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Minor Injustice ...and how it should be dealt with. This is just somethign that's been on my mind today, because there was a sad attempt at a walk-out by my class at noon. It was over-of all things-the fact that all of the underclassmen were being rewarded for improving upon standardized tests which seniors were exempt from this year. I can see why they're angry, however, because we have taken the same tests for three years and had no reward whatsoever, and we are also the class with the highest percentage of the four years in school currently, and massively improved from freshmen to junior year. It has caused a lot of animosity and anger between students and administration, and fellow students who disagree. The underclassmen, of course, see it as completely fair (though they would be on a walk-out in a heartbeat if they were in our shoes), and many of the seniors are infuriated. My stand? Yeah, it's unfair, but life's unfair, and we should be acting like the almost adults we are, not spoiled six year olds. So...my main point is: Are things like walk-outs and protests actually worth doing for small injustices that are just a part of life? Or are they, as I see, a waste of time and energy? Feel free to expand upon the topic as well. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

01-10-2004, 02:28 AM	#2
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Heh. I thought the petty spats and stuff were just a part of university culture. It seems High Schools are doing a much better job of that these days than when I went to one. (way back when) Seriously, though, this is something that's very common among certain parts of the american culture. The pettiness, I mean. And while I of course support protests against injustice, I don't think this really falls under that category. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-10-2004, 02:42 AM	#4
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	I agree, this isn't a true injustice, just a crappy time for this certain incentive to do well on standardized tests to fall for the senior class of this year. I'm getting really sick of hearing that I'm "out of touch" or just "mean" for thinking we should all grow up. "It's so unfair." Yeah, life's unfair. I'd rather spend my energy dealing with bigger things in the school district, like the huge issue of harassment. It is poorly dealt with in my school, despite attempts to lessen it, and people can get waived or ignored because of sports. I think that's a little more important than "Dang, we can't opt out of a final." I'm not saying walk-outs and protests are wrong. Just stupid ones __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

01-10-2004, 07:24 PM	#7
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	They can opt out of one of their final exams, which happen to be twenty percent of our semester grade. A teacher can't refuse that they opt out of it, either. It's part of the "no child left behind" bull. I have a lot of problems with the reward itself, how it's being issued, and the way it was told to the school as well, but that's another thread. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

01-11-2004, 01:39 PM	#10
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	We don't have to take finals our second semester if we get a B+ or higher in the class (with the exceptions of Government class and English IV/Advanced Comp). Yet another reason I think it's kind of stupid my classmates walked out. Well, a lot of the seniors that did walk out either have easy classes (no higher math or science), are graduating at semester, and/or just like to throw hissy fits when they don't get their way. And JD, I was informed by the school through their announcement that it was part of "no child left behind." And I still think it has been and always will be almost entirely bull. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

01-10-2004, 06:39 AM	#5
Hemel Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: on the boats Posts: 264	I suppose in a way you could look at it as a back-handed compliment ... that you didn't need incentives to improve and were self-motivated (Which in my thoughts is a better way in schooling anyway.) Yeah, it does look unfair, but who knows what the underneath motivation is ... maybe the school is being assessed in a different way so results suddenly become really important for the school (they're doing that over here - but it isn't necessarily a good thing, I think). So the situation for the school may have changed, which is why they're doing things differently now. For me, yes, I think walk-outs and protests have their place, but like you say, not for small things. There was one recently here, from just one little site of an international firm over something very small and silly that occurred, and that walk-out soon got the problem fixed. But that one, although it was a small incident that triggered it, did have two very big principles at stake (a gender issue and a conditions of employment issue), and my view is that that protest, because of the bigger issues, was worth it. But like you said, the only thing with your school issue is unfairness ... but even that may not be so if the situation has changed recently. I'm with you, things like harassment are the places where energy should go. The other thing, I suppose, is that walk outs and protests always hurt someone. Like when people go on strike, and those of us who've maybe saved all year for a holiday suddenly can't get away ... So it's a question also of weighing up hurts - because obviously the striking people think they are hurt in some way also, otherwise they wouldn't strike. But with your school thing, I'm inclined to think the balance of hurts goes the other way - okay the seniors are a bit hurt because they didn't get particular incentives, but, assuming that the incentives are things like the odd burger here and there, so not something like a million dollars every time you pass a test , then I don't really see the point of possibly damaging their education, the school, using up resources to deal with it that could be better used elsewhere, and so on. Like you say, maybe they should behave like the nearly adults they are, and maybe even be pleased that younger people are having opportunities and getting benefits they didn't get. just laughing now .... because parents say that kind of thing ... (Help! I'm turning into my mum ... )

01-10-2004, 06:35 PM	#6
*gdl96* the greg the admin Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: NJ Posts: 2,101	What's the reward the underclassmen are getting?

01-11-2004, 06:16 PM	#12
Hemel Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: on the boats Posts: 264	"No Child Left Behind" .. sounds a bit like your school's been taking lessons from the film 'Lilo and Stich' ....

01-11-2004, 06:53 PM	#13
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I think it's the testing that is part of No Child etc.

01-11-2004, 06:58 PM	#14
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Yes, the testing is part of "No Child Left Behind." So our school doesn't lose funding, they've been giving the students incentive to do well on the test. My class never received any of the promised incentives. What's worse is, our school's testing scores are actually very high, so it is extremely hard for us to improve by the percentages that are required by the program. Please don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about. I get belittled enough at school for speaking my mind, I don't need it here. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

01-12-2004, 05:31 AM	#17
Hemel Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: on the boats Posts: 264	Just in case you hadn't realised, JD, my comment on 'Lilo and Stich' was a joke. (Although it does have to be said that that particular film was ruined for me by what seemed propaganda for an ideology ...) Okay JD, you gave a load of references about this 'child left behind' stuff. I did a quick scan of a few, but can't find an easy way in - in other words an explanation of exactly what it is (though I did find a couple of lines), how they've defined the problem, and what they intend to do about it. But you seem to know something about it - so how's about helping the rest of us by writing a summary of the facts?