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Old 11-18-2003, 03:38 PM   #21
Attalus
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Quote:
Originally posted by Artanis
It is Legolas who claims to recognise Imrahil's Elven heritage. Some would say the story about Imrazôr and Mithrellas was just a legend, and not true, but I would rather trust Legolas in this matter.
I agree.
Quote:
At length they came to the Prince Imrahil, and Legolas looked at him and bowed low, for he saw that here indeed was one who had elven-blood in his veins. 'Hail, lord,' he said, 'It is long since the people of Nimrodel left the woodlands of Lórien, and yet one may see that not all sailed from Amroth's haven west over water.'
'So it is said in the lore of my land,' said the Prince, 'yet never has one of the fair folk been seen there for years beyond count. And I marvel to see one here now in the midst of sorrow and war.'
Note that Imrahil does not make any direct claim, but ascribes it to "lore."
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Last edited by Attalus : 11-18-2003 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 11-18-2003, 11:39 PM   #22
Dúnedain
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Here is something interesting. I was just reading some info on Tuor and Idril and then that went into the marriages between Man and Elf thus producing "half-elven" offspring. Check this out:

Quote:
Half-elven
The descendants of Elves and Men

In the histories of Middle-earth, there were a very few figures who shared descent from both Elves and Men. There were three definite cases where a Man and an Elf produced half-elven children: those of Beren and Lúthien, Tuor and Idril; and Aragorn and Arwen. There's also a possible fourth case, a little more obscure than the others: that of Imrazôr and Mithrellas.
Obviously, as we have uncovered above the latter being the descendants of Dol Amroth

From there I jumped into some info on those two:

Quote:
Imrazôr the Númenórean
Ancestor of the Princes of Dol Amroth

A nobleman who lived in the region of Belfalas in southeastern Gondor at the end of the second millennium of the Third Age. He was said to have wedded an Elf-maid named Mithrellas, a wandering companion of Nimrodel. Though it isn't known for sure whether this tradition is true, it is certain that his son Galador went on to found Dol Amroth.


Mithrellas
A companion of Nimrodel

A Silvan Elf who, at least according to legend, accompanied Nimrodel on her journey to the southern havens. Mithrellas, it is said, became lost in the woods of Belfalas, where she was found by Imrazôr the Númenórean. So Elvish blood entered the line of the Princes of Dol Amroth, it was claimed, since her son Galador was the first of the long line of Princes.


Galador
The first Lord of Dol Amroth

The son of Imrazôr the Númenórean and (at least, according to legend) the Elf-maid Mithrellas, Galador became the first Lord of Dol Amroth. He established himself as lord of Belfalas in southern Gondor, a title that his descendants maintained until at least the early Fourth Age.
Now this meeting between Imrazôr and Mithrellas would make sense as well, because Mithrellas was a companion of Nimrodel, who was lost in the White Mountains. The White Mountains formed the border between Gondor in the South and Rohan in the North, but in addition to that it is said that Nimrodel wandered near the banks of the River Gilrain which ran from the White Mountains down through western Lebennin in the south of Gondor. Now, Imrazôr was living in the region of Belfalas in southeastern Gondor. Belfalas was between the mouths of the Rivers Morthond and Gilrain, which as stated above is just south of the White Mountains. Of course later on Dol Amroth was founded and Dol Amroth lies in the region of Belfalas.

So when you look at it in a more technical sense, thus being done by the geography of the region and where both Imrazôr and Mithrellas were, it makes good sense that it is likely that they did cross paths and thus this story does make sense
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.'

'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin

"Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!"
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Last edited by Dúnedain : 11-18-2003 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 11-19-2003, 07:44 AM   #23
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Technically though *uh-hum - throat-clearing sound* Rohan was not to be established north of the White Mountains for another 500-odd years. That area was then the province of Calenardhon - a part of Gondor!

Just to clear that up!
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Old 11-19-2003, 11:11 AM   #24
Attalus
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Amazing how the various elements of Tolkien's world mesh and work together. No wonder he spent so much time pondering on it. It's like one of those fractal-diagrams that, the deeper you look into it, the more detail you find.
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Old 11-19-2003, 12:44 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Valandil
Technically though *uh-hum - throat-clearing sound* Rohan was not to be established north of the White Mountains for another 500-odd years. That area was then the province of Calenardhon - a part of Gondor!

Just to clear that up!
I know, I was just pointing that out for frame of reference, duh!
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.'

'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin

"Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!"
--Linaewen
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Old 11-26-2003, 11:37 PM   #26
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The only explanation I can come up with is that the "lore" comes in with the actual story. Not whether Imrahil and his line carry Elven blood, but whether it happened the way the 'story' states. Legolas' prompt acknowledgement removes all doubt about the presence of Elven blood.
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Old 12-07-2003, 12:29 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Gaffer
Amroth: wasn't the mystery there that Tolkien couldn't decide whether he was Galadriel's son or not.
You mean the Prince of Dol Amroth? Who else is named "Amroth"? Is he in the Sil?
(I figure it must be another person, Galadriel wouldn't cheat on Celeborn.)
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My next big step was in creating the “LotR Remake” thread, which, to put it lightly, catapulted me into fame.
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Old 12-07-2003, 05:09 AM   #28
Artanis
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nurvingiel
You mean the Prince of Dol Amroth? Who else is named "Amroth"? Is he in the Sil?
(I figure it must be another person, Galadriel wouldn't cheat on Celeborn.)
Ehem - see my location

Tolkien wrote more than one version of the history of Celeborn and Galadriel. At one stage they had a son named Amroth. It's all in the UT.
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Old 12-07-2003, 12:11 PM   #29
Attalus
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In the other version, Amroth was the original King of Lothlorien; he was also Nimrodel's lover, and was killed trying to go back and find her. See "Lothlorien" and other places.
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Old 12-07-2003, 04:11 PM   #30
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Ah. Thanks Artanis and Attalus, that clears that little mystery up!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hectorberlioz
My next big step was in creating the “LotR Remake” thread, which, to put it lightly, catapulted me into fame.
Quote:
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