Safe Injection Sites

[HOBBIT]

I think this is a bad idea as well.

It encourages drug use - a heavy program designed to make sure that they get off the drugs would be more useful - not a safehaven where they can get drugged up

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Lizra
... Give them a little cup of methedone instead! I don't get this hand holding of the wastedly pathetic. You've got to get them off drugs.

They're not going to get off of the drugs unless they want to do that. I'm not sure if the 'safe haven' is the way to go or not, since there's nothing like that here (that I know of). But the purpose of the clinic is not to help them get off Heroin but to give them a place to shoot up and a clean needle to do so. I'm not sure I think this is a good idea or not.

[Lizra]

I realize that Ruinel! My point was, a cup of methodone makes them happy and high, and drinking that is "safer" than the whole fit and needle bit. An alternative......

I was being sarcastic though, because taxpayers really don't need to be paying for junkies drugs, do we. I go with an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. There should be as much "in your face info" about the hopeless misery addictive drugs bring on you as possible. The real "truth" is what potential users need to visualize.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Lizra
I realize that Ruinel! My point was, a cup of methodone makes them happy and high, and drinking that is "safer" than the whole fit and needle bit. An alternative......

I was being sarcastic though, because taxpayers really don't need to be paying for junkies drugs, do we. I go with an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. There should be as much "in your face info" about the hopeless misery addictive drugs bring on you as possible. The real "truth" is what potential users need to visualize.

I see.

I agree that tax payers should NOT pay for the drugs.

I saw something on HBO about a month ago (not sure) about the lives of crack junkies. It was so terribly sad.

[Insidious Rex]

Perhaps we need to do a little research on the costs of saying "screw them let them shoot up with bad needles Im not paying for it" and just how much the increase in AIDS cases among this population costs to the country over all. Im guessing it costs tons. AIDS is a terribly expensive disease to deal with. not just directly but indirectly. And if we all turn our backs on these people then what choice do they have but to live as they do, get AIDS and other diseases and pass these diseases on then die. which feels better? spending your tax dollars on some clean needles or spending your tax dollars on the tens of thousands of derelict AIDS cases that happen in this population every year and the collateral damage this all causes. the government has shown its not willing to spend a lot for any kind of serious treatment program. So whats our alternative?

[Lizra]

Now I'm dating myself when I reply to this! When I think of people shooting up, It's heroin. I missed the whole crack epidemic...in my day, you snorted cocaine. I don't know nothin bout no crack.

[Bombadillo]

That's a good point IR, but I think the real problem we should deal with is not AIDS, but drugs. Yeah, the reality is, some (or most) junkies will still do drugs, but why make it easier? THey should be motivated to get off the drugs. Once a person's clean, that's no more AIDS they're spreading, that's no more money going into needles, and that's one life saved.

Just for the record, although slightly off topic, are you a Democratic supporter?

[Lizra]

What? A large hole has just appeared in the road! Who wants to jump in?

[Sheeana]

I have been following this closely, and I'm still not any closer to what I think is best. On the one hand, I think it's a good idea to give them safe places and clean needles (it's a sickness, innit? these people can't help being addicted), but on the other hand, I don't like the idea of giving them heroin or whatever to shoot up with. There IS a problem, and it's not going to go away; drug related problems need to be dealt with somehow, but I'm not sure if this is it. Maybe it's a step in the right direction though - because junkies need help, not persecution.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Bombadillo
That's a good point IR, but I think the real problem we should deal with is not AIDS, but drugs. Yeah, the reality is, some (or most) junkies will still do drugs, but why make it easier? THey should be motivated to get off the drugs. Once a person's clean, that's no more AIDS they're spreading, that's no more money going into needles, and that's one life saved.

Just for the record, although slightly off topic, are you a Democratic supporter?

who me? well im more liberal then i am conservative on most things if that means anything. not a democrat or a republican though. no one ever seems to fit my political leanings on all issues so i avoid playing blanket me too politics like most people.

[gollum9630]

I was watching the news today and they were saying that they expect aroubd 800 users everyday and the site is staffed with nurses and councillors to help get them off drugs. The main reason for these sites (whuch has already been said) is to cut down on the costs of people who get aids and other diseases from sharing needles

[GrayMouser]

Look, Bombadillo, Hobbit, Lizra- I'm sure we all agree that getting junkies to stop using, or not even start, is the desired goal.

The question is how? As has been pointed out, it takes a lot of motivation to quit- what do you do about those without that?

Maybe relieving the misery by giving them a clean safe place to shoot up will be counter-productive. OTOH, the alternative is scraping up the bodies every morning.

The article I referenced to says that Canada, like the States, puts most of its resources on the supply side- making busts, trying to interdict- when study after study shows that cutting down demand through treatment is far more effective. That doesn't get funded because no politician wants to be labelled "soft on drugs"

Apparently the question of police presence is a problem as well- nobody wants the sidewalk in front of the place to turn into a market, or become a zone for rip-offs, but patrols around the area will be enough to scare a lot of potential users back into the alleys.

[Lizra]

But could it be that "making it nicer" might tip the scales for a few who were considering starting more inclined to do so? That's not a good thing.

"Hey! It's cool man, the feds keep it clean, free needles...Come on!"

[mirrille]

I thought the main objective here was to prevent overdoses and bloodborne infections. If you can move people from the safe-injection sites into rehab programs, it's kind of a nice bonus and we should definitely do whatever we can to achieve that, but I'd be happy if all we got was a lower incidence of HIV/AIDS and Hep C infections. These are very nasty chronic diseases and it's just scary how common they are. I think a year's treatment for Hep C is in the neighborhood of $20,000. These people can live for years and years. It blows my mind how much these drugs cost. That doesn't even count the doctor's fees, hospital stays, staff wages, complications from their illness etc. And you're not dealing with the most compliant population either, so it futher complicates things. I'm sure preventing just 1 infection can pay for alot of needles, so in that sense I don't mind the cost of the program.
In principle, I don't have a problem with the program. I just don't know a whole lot about how they are implementing it and alot of the success will depend on how it's all done. The one thing you can count on with the health authority there is that the they can make the biggest bureaucratic mess of even very simple things. But it will be interesting to see what long-term effect, if any, this program has.
On a related front, I do think BC needs more psychiatric beds. When they cut alot of those beds, alot of those people ended up on the street and there's a strong correlation between mental illness and substance abuse, and those things kind of have to be treated together. It's really sad. You look around the downtown eastside and alot of people clearly should be getting psychiatric treatment and not being left to their own devices in that kind of environment. It just feeds the cycle and makes everything even more unpleasant for everyone.

[Lizra]

Hi Mirrille!

My oldest bf turned up with hep C, luckily, I never thought shooting up was cool! He has been taking the drugs for several years, I suppose he's ok, he lives in LA now. I think of all that "gang" back there at IU in 1970...I suppose they all have it! (The ones that are still alive!)

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
...Apparently the question of police presence is a problem as well- nobody wants the sidewalk in front of the place to turn into a market, or become a zone for rip-offs, but patrols around the area will be enough to scare a lot of potential users back into the alleys.

That would be a problem.

I have a question: have the owners of businesses nearby complained much?

[Legolas_Frodo_Aragorn]

i think that if they take the person in, then slowly ease them off and prove to them that they dont have to use drugs then it is worth while