The absence of a villain

Dreran the Green · 06-03-2003, 09:36 PM

In most stories (at least most of the ones I have read) there is a character or creature that is always there trying to prevent the hero or heroine from accomplishing their task. Tolkien had his Dark Lords and treacherous wizards, what about everyone here? Do you like having villains in the books you read, or not? Do you always write a villain or two into your own? If so, what are they like? And must there always be an opposing force to the hero/heroine?
I have been writing a fantasy book for a while now. I am almost done, but yesterday I realized I never wrote in a villain, or any sort of enemy for my main characters. There are a lot of flashbacks where they battle with different enemys, but for the main part, in the present time the story is taking place, no one. I'm torn between two options: If I write in a villain or someone to fight my characters, It will change the story dramatically, and I don't know if I want that. But without one, I'm afraid the story is really just a long dragging on of events. Again, do you like villains in the books you read?

Lizra · 06-03-2003, 09:43 PM

No, I need no villians!

Life presents plenty of obstacles by itself, there's no need to create a "VILLIAN". (IMO) A villian for villians sake could be a bit trite.

Gwaimir Windgem · 06-03-2003, 10:22 PM

Hehehe....I can just imagine the villian in your gardening essays, Lizra...

The Monster Cabbage!

***IronParrot*** · 06-04-2003, 12:45 AM

Villainous characters are more appropriate for some genres than others. If it suits the story, go for it. If not, don't.

Agalayth · 06-04-2003, 07:24 AM

My story has an antagonist, but it's not important to every story. Like IronParrot said, it's appropriate in some genres, but not in others.

turtlelover · 06-04-2003, 08:41 PM

if you don't want to change the book then don't if you think it has value and is a decent story them I'm sure it is because many times we are our own toughest critic!

Dreran the Green · 06-04-2003, 08:44 PM

True.

Laurus Nobilis · 06-06-2003, 06:34 PM

As long as there *is* a plot, the story won't be boring just because it doesn't have a villain. If it works as it is now, I wouldn't add a villain for a villain's sake.

I guess it depends on the story.

Lief Erikson · 06-07-2003, 11:26 AM

The thing is, readers have to remain interested in the book. Suspense is a great way to do that. Suspense doesn't always require a villain, but it usually comes from readers' concern for the main characters, or for minor characters.

Having a villain is an easy way to make readers concerned for the characters they've grown to care about. Villains, like I said, aren't necessary. But they are a useful tool to easily create elements that are necessary for a good story.

Anglorfin · 06-08-2003, 02:02 AM

Obviously since you've written so much already a villian is not necessary. I think it takes greater talent than people realize for a writer to create conflict within a story without adding a "bad guy" or blatantly obvious antagonist.

Lief Erikson · 06-08-2003, 02:24 AM

Just so long as the story keeps the reader interested, without one. Not having read the story myself, of course I can't make any sort of opinion yet on whether a villain would be good to have involved

.

sun-star · 06-10-2003, 04:29 PM

It depends on genre, but it also depends what you mean by a villain. If it's a cardboard cut-out evil guy whose only entertainment is making things difficult for the hero, it's not very realistic (possibly the understatement of the century). But there's nothing wrong in having two conflicting characters, as long as they are both well-drawn, properly rounded and morally complex. However difficult that is to do

Adrian Baggins · 06-16-2003, 09:13 PM

All my stories have vilans, be they people or circumstances, such as in one of my books, 4 years of a girls old life is stolen after a car accident on a rainy night on a narrow bridge and she gets amnesia. Villans can be anything, all stories even if the villan is time itself, have villans. That is my writing philosophy anyway.

Entlover · 06-19-2003, 07:45 PM

You have to have conflict in order to have a plot.

The conflict can be between man and another human, man and nature, or man and himself, but there must be conflict of some kind or there's no plot.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 07-22-2003, 07:44 AM

I'm having way too much fun not being clear on who's "evil" and who's on the side of "good" and what is good anyway and who gets to say what's right and wrong, and all of that.

My main story right now has the main character going from being on what she thought was the side of good and right to suddenly being thrown into a rather permanent situation in which she is on the side she had been fighting, because of one moment of lost faith. So the main conflict in that bit of story is her trying to figure out if there really ought to be sides, and who's right and who's wrong, and all that. Because she can either, at this point, turn herself in, kill herself, or deal with her situation and get used to it. Without much doubt or thinking she goes for the last option, because now she has the freedom to enjoy herself now. What she does spend time thinking about is why she was killing these people before, and if it is "right" that an organization exists, or if these people are by nature evil. Stuff like that. So there's no villain except her own thoughts, really.

06-03-2003, 09:36 PM	#1
Dreran the Green Lady of Legends Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Missing. Reward if found. Posts: 1,083	The absence of a villain In most stories (at least most of the ones I have read) there is a character or creature that is always there trying to prevent the hero or heroine from accomplishing their task. Tolkien had his Dark Lords and treacherous wizards, what about everyone here? Do you like having villains in the books you read, or not? Do you always write a villain or two into your own? If so, what are they like? And must there always be an opposing force to the hero/heroine? I have been writing a fantasy book for a while now. I am almost done, but yesterday I realized I never wrote in a villain, or any sort of enemy for my main characters. There are a lot of flashbacks where they battle with different enemys, but for the main part, in the present time the story is taking place, no one. I'm torn between two options: If I write in a villain or someone to fight my characters, It will change the story dramatically, and I don't know if I want that. But without one, I'm afraid the story is really just a long dragging on of events. Again, do you like villains in the books you read? __________________ The end justifies the means, thought Aziraphale. And the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.* *This is not actually true. The road to Hell is paved with frozen door to door salesmen. On weekends many of the younger demons go ice-skating down it. ~Good Omens

06-03-2003, 09:43 PM	#2
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	No, I need no villians! Life presents plenty of obstacles by itself, there's no need to create a "VILLIAN". (IMO) A villian for villians sake could be a bit trite. __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

06-03-2003, 10:22 PM	#3
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Hehehe....I can just imagine the villian in your gardening essays, Lizra... The Monster Cabbage! __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

06-04-2003, 12:45 AM	#4
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	Villainous characters are more appropriate for some genres than others. If it suits the story, go for it. If not, don't. __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

06-04-2003, 07:24 AM	#5
Agalayth Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 215	My story has an antagonist, but it's not important to every story. Like IronParrot said, it's appropriate in some genres, but not in others. __________________ Chickens at rest will stay at rest unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. Chickens in motion tend to cross the road.

06-04-2003, 08:41 PM	#6
turtlelover Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: nowhere you would care to be Posts: 420	if you don't want to change the book then don't if you think it has value and is a decent story them I'm sure it is because many times we are our own toughest critic! __________________ "i could have alot of fun with that!!"-Allison "I don't know why it does this! maybe i'm allergic to bras?"-Dee

06-04-2003, 08:44 PM	#7
Dreran the Green Lady of Legends Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Missing. Reward if found. Posts: 1,083	True. __________________ The end justifies the means, thought Aziraphale. And the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.* *This is not actually true. The road to Hell is paved with frozen door to door salesmen. On weekends many of the younger demons go ice-skating down it. ~Good Omens

06-06-2003, 06:34 PM	#8
Laurus Nobilis Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Posts: 73	As long as there is a plot, the story won't be boring just because it doesn't have a villain. If it works as it is now, I wouldn't add a villain for a villain's sake. I guess it depends on the story. __________________ "...So the essential Quest started at once. But I met a lot of things on the way that astonished me. Tom Bombadil I knew already; but I had never been to Bree. Strider sitting in the corner at the inn was a shock, and I had no more idea who he was than had Frodo. The Mines of Moria had been a mere name; and of Lothlórien no word had reached my mortal ears till I came there. Far away I knew there were the Horse-lords on the confines of an ancient Kingdom of Men, but Fangorn Forest was an unforeseen adventure." ~ J. R. R. Tolkien

06-07-2003, 11:26 AM	#9
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	The thing is, readers have to remain interested in the book. Suspense is a great way to do that. Suspense doesn't always require a villain, but it usually comes from readers' concern for the main characters, or for minor characters. Having a villain is an easy way to make readers concerned for the characters they've grown to care about. Villains, like I said, aren't necessary. But they are a useful tool to easily create elements that are necessary for a good story.

06-08-2003, 02:02 AM	#10
Anglorfin Alasailon Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: college Posts: 861	Obviously since you've written so much already a villian is not necessary. I think it takes greater talent than people realize for a writer to create conflict within a story without adding a "bad guy" or blatantly obvious antagonist. __________________ "and then this hobbit was walking, and then this elf jumped out of a bush and totally flipped out on him while wailing on his guitar." "Anglorfin was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of anger; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was great skill."

06-08-2003, 02:24 AM	#11
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Just so long as the story keeps the reader interested, without one. Not having read the story myself, of course I can't make any sort of opinion yet on whether a villain would be good to have involved .

06-10-2003, 04:29 PM	#12
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	It depends on genre, but it also depends what you mean by a villain. If it's a cardboard cut-out evil guy whose only entertainment is making things difficult for the hero, it's not very realistic (possibly the understatement of the century). But there's nothing wrong in having two conflicting characters, as long as they are both well-drawn, properly rounded and morally complex. However difficult that is to do __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

06-16-2003, 09:13 PM	#13
Adrian Baggins Frodo's lil sis HP LotR fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: in a tree reading Harry P. and LotR Posts: 585	All my stories have vilans, be they people or circumstances, such as in one of my books, 4 years of a girls old life is stolen after a car accident on a rainy night on a narrow bridge and she gets amnesia. Villans can be anything, all stories even if the villan is time itself, have villans. That is my writing philosophy anyway. __________________ AB Adrian Baggins wizard, elf, mortal, hobbit Owner of the 3 unknown rings I LIKE HIEI!! LOOK AT MY AVITAR IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THAT IS!! H. Hysterically cold I. Insanely unhuman E. Effortlessly mocking I. Irresistabely hott "You're a team player, a save-the-day superhero pause I hate people like you." ~Hiei

06-19-2003, 07:45 PM	#14
Entlover Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 463	You have to have conflict in order to have a plot. The conflict can be between man and another human, man and nature, or man and himself, but there must be conflict of some kind or there's no plot.

07-22-2003, 07:44 AM	#15
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	I'm having way too much fun not being clear on who's "evil" and who's on the side of "good" and what is good anyway and who gets to say what's right and wrong, and all of that. My main story right now has the main character going from being on what she thought was the side of good and right to suddenly being thrown into a rather permanent situation in which she is on the side she had been fighting, because of one moment of lost faith. So the main conflict in that bit of story is her trying to figure out if there really ought to be sides, and who's right and who's wrong, and all that. Because she can either, at this point, turn herself in, kill herself, or deal with her situation and get used to it. Without much doubt or thinking she goes for the last option, because now she has the freedom to enjoy herself now. What she does spend time thinking about is why she was killing these people before, and if it is "right" that an organization exists, or if these people are by nature evil. Stuff like that. So there's no villain except her own thoughts, really. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

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