anti-war and other demonstration groups

[BeardofPants]

Well, obviously NZ has this thing with low population numbers, but I seem to remember a lot of people marching on the beehive when the whole Milosovich saga was going on. People *do* care, but does it make the news? Not in NZ.

[Elvellon]

Also, if one’s government already took a position against an act of injustice abroad many people feel less compelled to go on protest marches and the like, since they review themselves in the official position.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elvellon
Also, if one’s government already took a position against an act of injustice abroad many people feel less compelled to go on protest marches and the like, since they review themselves in the official position.

Yeah - but the YUS government condemns the KKK - but people still go out to counter-demonstrate against them.

[jerseydevil]

This was a surprising demonstation in Iran.

Death Sentence Ignites Student Protest in Iran
TEHRAN - Hundreds of Iranian students protested against Iran's hardline judiciary yesterday in the biggest political demonstration in the Islamic Republic in more than three years.

The group of about 500 students made fires outside the Tehran University campus gates and chanted in unison: "Political prisoners should be released!" and "Our problem is the judiciary!" witnesses said.

Last night's demonstration came just days after a hardline court sentenced Tehran University academic Hashem Aghajari to death for blasphemy after he criticized the clergy's right to rule the Islamic Republic. Aghajari's sentencing was the latest blow to Iran's pro-refom movement led by moderate President Mohammad Khatami.

Elected in 1997 and re-elected in 2001, Khatami has found his efforts to promote democracy in the country of 65 million people blockled by conservative opponents who control the judiciary, armed forces, media and several, mostly non-elected supervisory bodies.

Dozens of journalists and intellectuals have been jailed in the last three years as part of a crackdown by conservatives opposed to Khatami's reforms.

Where are the western demonstrations against this flagrant violation of human rights and free speech? Where is a show of support for the Iranian students cause and a sign of support for Iranian reforms?

I remember several years ago that Europe managed to get a huge demonstation going against the US executing a person who committed murder. Surely someone who is executed for speaking out against his government is more of an outrage than executing someone who actually went around killing people.

[Elvellon]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Yeah - but the YUS government condemns the KKK - but people still go out to counter-demonstrate against them.

So? The KKK is an inner problem of the US, so is natural that Americans that feel threatened by its existence will protest against it (particularly because it is not outlawed). A better example would be a protest against something occurring abroad, like Joerg Haider coming to power in Austria. It is here that people, when they agree with the position of their government, content themselves with it, without going out of their way to protest.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elvellon
So? The KKK is an inner problem of the US, so is natural that Americans that feel threatened by its existence will protest against it (particularly because it is not outlawed). A better example would be a protest against something occurring abroad, like Joerg Haider coming to power in Austria. It is here that people, when they agree with the position of their government, content themselves with it, without going out of their way to protest.

I had missed that you had said "abroad". And the KKK should not be outlawed. They may have idiotic beliefs but as long as they don't violate the law - then the followers should be allowed to march.

[Elvellon]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
This was a surprising demonstation in Iran.



Where are the western demonstrations against this flagrant violation of human rights and free speech? Where is a show of support for the Iranian students cause and a sign of support for Iranian reforms?

I remember several years ago that Europe managed to get a huge demonstation going against the US executing a person who committed murder. Surely someone who is executed for speaking out against his government is more of an outrage than executing someone who actually went around killing people.

Quite frankly I haven’t seen that one, it probably wasn’t given much relevance here (was it widely broadcasted there?).

As for the demonstration you speak of, what do you mean by huge? Can’t recall any significant demonstration for that reason, exclusively. But it is true that many Europeans are somewhat shocked by the death penalty in the US. It is one thing when death is being dealt by the state in some dark corner of the world, but for better and for worst, people simply expect more of the US here. Simply put, what happens in the West is seen as much more relevant that what happens elsewhere. Just? No, but it is true that is how thing are seen by the media and, generally, the population.

[Elvellon]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I had missed that you had said "abroad". And the KKK should not be outlawed. They may have idiotic beliefs but as long as they don't violate the law - then the followers should be allowed to march.

I meant that because it is legally accepted, it is more visible, making their presence seem to be more threatening (even if the outlawing of it would probably make it really more dangerous that it is now)

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elvellon
Quite frankly I haven’t seen that one, it probably wasn’t given much relevance here (was it widely broadcasted there?).

I didn't see it widely broadcast - but it was in the paper.

As for the demonstration you speak of, what do you mean by huge? Can’t recall any significant demonstration for that reason, exclusively. But it is true that many Europeans are somewhat shocked by the death penalty in the US. It is one thing when death is being dealt by the state in some dark corner of the world, but for better and for worst, people simply expect more of the US here. Simply put, what happens in the West is seen as much more relevant that what happens elsewhere. Just? No, but it is true that is how thing are seen by the media and, generally, the population.

From what I rememeber - it took place in Italy - it may have been in France.

What most Europeans don't realise is that the death penalty is a state issue - although the federal government does have the death penalty too - I think the last time the federal government executed someone was in 2001 and before that it was 1963. Executions since 1927. I had read somewhere that France had the death penalty until 1981. I feel that the death penalty is a state issue - since I support state rights. Each state has it's own laws - although the Supreme Court recently ruled that the death penalty violates the 8th Amendment (Cruel and Unusual Punishment) for those 15 and younger.

[jerseydevil]

Okay this is very sick.... What is ironic and sad is that this is being done in the name of God or Allah.

KADUNA, Nigeria -- Dozens have been killed in northern Nigeria in rioting that erupted after a newspaper suggested the Prophet Mohammad would have approved of the Miss World beauty contest.

The death toll in the town of Kaduna was an estimated 105 with a further 521 injured taken to hospital, aid workers said on Friday.

Angry mobs in the mainly-Muslim city 600 kilometres (375 miles) northwest of Lagos burnt Christian churches and rampaged through the streets stabbing, bludgeoning and burning bystanders to death...

Shehu Sani of the Kaduna-based Civil Rights Congress told The Associated Press he watched a crowd stab a young man, force a petrol-filled tyre around his neck and burn him alive. Sani said he saw three other bodies elsewhere in the city.

Alsa Hassan, founder of another human rights group, Alsa Care, told AP he saw a commuter being dragged out of his car and beaten to death by protesters.

Schools and shops hurriedly closed as hordes of young men, shouting "Allahu Akhbar," or "God is great," ignited makeshift street barricades made of tires and garbage, sending plumes of black smoke rising above the city. Others were heard chanting, "Down with beauty" and "Miss World is sin."

Islamic fundamentalist groups had for months warned of protests against the Miss World pageant.

The fundamentalist Nigerian Muslim Umma, an umbrella group of Islamic clerics and scholars, has declared a "serious religious emergency" and issued a statement calling on the government to stop the pageant, Reuters reported.

Organisers have postponed the finale until after the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.

The contest is due to start in Nigeria on December 7 in the Nigerian capital, Abuja.

'Hugely popular'
The pageant has also drawn protests from other parts of the world.

Contestants from five countries -- Costa Rica, Denmark, Switzerland, South Africa and Panama -- are boycotting the event because Islamic courts in Nigeria have sentenced several unmarried women to death by stoning for conceiving babies outside wedlock. Nigeria's government insists none of the judgments will be carried out, although it has refused to intervene directly.

Winner of Miss World in 2000, India's Priyanka Chopra, defended the contest being held in Nigeria, saying it was hugely popular in developing countries.

"People want to see their citizens on an international level," she told CNN.

She added that it was being held in Nigeria because last year's winner had been Miss Nigeria, Agbani Darego.

She said Nigerians had been "excited and elated" at the prospect.

Miss World publicist Stella Din said pageant organisers hoped calm would quickly return to Kaduna.

"We are very, very sad that it has come to this -- even if there is a loss of one life, it makes us sad. We are appealing to all to please exercise restraint," Din told AP.

This whole thing is sick. The stoning of a woman to death for having a baby out of wedlock. The riots over a newspaper article that claimed that Mohammed would have married one of the contestants. These people are acting like wild animals all in the name of God.