What would the Elvish be for...

[Ithildin]

I just tried to create an "Ithildin" account with AIM, but my name is already taken there. Any Elven language scholars out there? What would the Elvish be for "Ithildin and moonlight" or "Ithildin under the moon" or something like that? Any suggestions from anyone on how I could still use Ithildin without numbers or weird capitalization? Thanks a million!

[Ñólendil]

Does the "-din" in Ithildin mean "shine?" If so the equivalent in High-elven is Isilmë, "moon-shine".

[Sminty_Smeagol]

I have an account, IthildinMithril, that I don't use any more and could give to you. You could upload your own buddylist.

[Ithildin]

Thanks for the offer of "IthildinMithril", Sminty_Smeagol! I sure might take you up on that.

I'm not sure what the "din" means in "Ithildin", Ñólendil. I seem to remember ithildin being called "moon-silver" somewhere, but I can't seem to find it at the moment. If that's right, though, then "din" would mean "silver".

"Isilmë" has a nice ring to it. Even though the direct translation in English rather reminds me of whiskey stills. Still, I like it...

Looking at both the English and Elvish lyrics for "Aniron", from the Lord of the Rings soundtrack, I believe "el" is the Elvish for "star". (The 'e' in that word has a ^ sign over it, but I don't know how to type that.) I don't know, though, which type of Elvish that is and I don't want to do any language mixing. (Am I right in thinking that's not proper?)

Do y'all know which Elven language "ithildin" is, and which language "el" is? Also, do y'all know Elven words for "of", "the", "light", or "silver"?

I'm thinking of some things like "star of Ithildin", "star of Isilmë", "star of moon-light", "star of Mithril", "star of silver", or "star of the moon", translated into Elvish. (Although, I suppose I could use the first two without translating them.)

Y'all have gotten my creative juices flowing now! Unfortunately, I don't have that much knowledge to go along with my ideas. It sure is great to have more knowledgeable Tolkien fans around!

[markedel]

el is star in quenya, and gil is star in sindarin. I'm no expert on the subject so ask around first. If you have the Sil you can use the elements of name index in the back to find the words. Otherwise we can look for you.

[osszie]

try the downloads on this site for a v.good elven dictionary

http://www.grey-company.org/Language/

(there are some other good downloads too )

[Ithildin]

The link to the elven dictionary was very helpful. Thanks, osszie! I now have nine names to choose from which are visually related to "Ithlidin" -- I just need to make sure first that I'm not mixing languages with them. (Yeah, I don't have the Sil, markedel.)

So, can anyone tell me which languages the following words are from? tel' (of the), ithil (moon), ithildin (star-moon), elda/elena (of the stars), silma (starlight), ar' (and), en' (of), tindome (starlit), celeb (silver), and isilmë (moonlight).

Ñólendil said that "isilmë" is High-elven, but I'm not sure which language is High-elven. (Quenya?)

Also, I noticed that the elven dictionary I used didn't show any accented letters. (e.g. It showed "isilmë" as "isilme". Anybody notice any words in the list above that should have accented letters in them? ("Tindome" somehow looks like it should be "tindomë")

Last question...anybody know why the dictionary showed "elda, elena" for "of the stars"? Is it a gender thing, or something to do with singular/plural?

Thanks!



ElenTel'Ithil (Star of the Moon)
IthildinElda or IthildinElena (Ithildin of the Stars)
SilmaAr'Ithildin (Starlight and Ithildin)
SilmaAr'Isilmë (Starlight and Moonlight)
IsilmëAr'Ithildin (Moonlight and Ithildin)
ElenEn'Ithildin (Star of Ithildin)
TindomëIthildin (Starlit Ithildin)
CelebAr'Isilmë (Silver and Moonlight)

[Ñólendil]

Yes, High-elven is Quenya. It's called High-elven because those who spoke it were considered by Men "High Elves", or "Elves of the Light". The speakers of Sindarin were considered "Middle Elves" or "Elves of the Twilight", though of course the more common name was Grey-elves.

Also, I noticed that the elven dictionary I used didn't show any accented letters. (e.g. It showed "isilmë" as "isilme". Anybody notice any words in the list above that should have accented letters in them? ("Tindome" somehow looks like it should be "tindomë")

The diacrictic you are referring to is called a diaraisis, it's is not an accent mark. An accented "e", used by Tolkien to denote long vowels, looked like: é. The two dots over, the diaraisis, is used by Tolkien specifically for English readers, to make sure they know a certain vowel (usually at the end) is sounded, or that two vowels together are seperate sounds. The symbol is not represented in any fashion in the original scripts used by the Elves (whether Tengwar, letters, or Angerthas, runes) and is not necessary.
"Eärendil" merely tells the reader that the "ear" is not pronounced like the English word ear, but is two seperate sounds: eh-ar. Tindomë merely tells the reader that the "e" at the end is not silent. There is nothing incorrect about "Earendil" or "Tindome".

So, can anyone tell me which languages the following words are from? tel' (of the), ithil (moon), ithildin (star-moon), elda/elena (of the stars), silma (starlight), ar' (and), en' (of), tindome (starlit), celeb (silver), and isilmë (moonlight).

Tel' is Sindarin.

Ithil belongs to both Sindarin and pre-Exilic Quenya. The "th" sound turned into "s" shortly before the Exiles left for Middle-earth. It was a big controversy that had some influence on the history of the Noldor, you can read about it in an essay called The Shibboleth of Feanor, published in The Peoples of Middle-earth. In Middle-earth, the Quenderin = "ithil" was "isil".

Elda/elena belongs to Quenya. These are two seperate words with related etymology that bear the same meaning. The meaning you have gotten is the adjective side of it, but "Elda" was also used as a noun, for any Elf that went on the Great Journey. Originally the word was "Eldo", pl. "Eldor", which means "Marchers". The Elves were originally called the Eldâi by Orome the Vala. "Eldâi" belongs to early Common Eldarin, the language from which Quenya, Sindarin, Nandorin and Telerin were descended. It became "Eldar" in Quenya. Eldâ meant "connected or concerned with the stars". It was a name for all Elves, but later it was used only for the Eldor, the Marchers who followed Orome, and "Eldo" fell out of use.

ithildin is Sindarin. It does not mean "star-moon", I know that for sure. Are you using Ruth S. Noel's book or something?

silma does not mean "starlight". Silme does, but not silma. "Silma" was the name of the mysterious substance Feanor used to make the Silmarilli (hence the name). It means something like "pure light". Both silma and silme belong to Quenya.

ar', en', celeb and tindome are all Sindarin.

Isilme is Quenderin.

[Ithildin]

Wow. I shall have to do some digesting of that. Thanks!

As far as the "Ithildin" meaning "star-moon" thing, I had just taken what that online dictionary had said. I've never heard of Ruth S. Noel.

[Ñólendil]

Well, some good advice: if you ever do run by Ruth S. Noel's book, don't buy it It's a waste of money.

The Sindarin word for "star" was "el", not "din". So I could be mistaken, but I doubt "ithildin" means "star-moon".

[Ithildin]

Thanks for the tip on the book, Ñólendil -- I'll remember that.

I'm hoping to use TindomëIthildin for IM -- I've just got to figure out first how to get the ë to show up correctly. If I can't, I'll use ElenTel'Ithil or ElenEn'Ithildin. (I love the way Tindomë looks, but *not* the way Tindome does.)

Anyway, thanks so much 'mooters for your help!! I wanted a name that I could stand to keep for a long time, and I think any of the above three will do quite well.

[Ñólendil]

Maybe "din" is related to Quenderin "tinta" = "cause to sparkle".

[cian]

Ithildin means "Star-moon, (Moon-star)"

-din (in Ithildin) is a lenited form of S. tin 'sparkling thing, star' (lenition is a mutation that also occurs in Welsh for example).

Suggestion: best to generally avoid "Grey Company Elven". Cheers

_____