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#81 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#82 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
Posts: 10,752
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Besides, this bein' Entmoot an' all... it would be hasty to 'hasten'!
![]() Now... can we stick with Iraq? ![]()
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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#83 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 02-01-2005 at 06:46 PM. |
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#84 |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
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#85 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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I am certainly glad that the Sunnis are ending their boycot on the constitution. It's an excellent thing for Iraq.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4713481.stm
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#86 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Are they?
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#87 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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They were, and they've been involved in the process of creating the constitution. Now there's another jam, though, in that they're disagreeing with the Shias about the current text.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#88 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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Last edited by The Gaffer : 08-29-2005 at 06:54 AM. |
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#89 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Here's a piece of good news.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4234122.stm The insurgent casualties and the border closing are good signs, I think, even if they are merely short term successes.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#90 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Longer term successes!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4525474.stm
I'm quite happy right now about the improvements that are being made in Iraq. According to an Economist Intelligence Unit Survey, Iraq is the fourth most free country in the Middle East! In the recent Tal Afara attacks, Iraqis also showed a far more dominant position than usual in leading their security. Though many of their troops and police still require US backing to be effective, they are continually growing in numbers and training! I'm pleased that the insurgents have failed to break the spirit of the Iraqi people, and have failed to extinguish their thirst for freedom. Now the Sunnis are becoming more and more involved, also ![]() There are, of course, problems still with the economy (though there are successes there too, such as the establishment of a common currency throughout Iraq!), and there is a long road ahead. However, I'm very pleased about the overarching positive signs, such as the continued success of the Iraqis in meeting all the political deadlines the US sets for them, and their success in taking more and more control over the security of their country. The spirit of the police recruits and the spirit of common people who risk their lives at the polling booths is truly admirable, and in that spirit lies hope for a free, stable and secure Iraq.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#91 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Interesting article Lief. I'll be done exams and Iraqis go to the polls on the 15th. (I don't suppose there's any chance that women get to vote there..?) It certainly sounds like progress is being made.
![]() I didn't know Iraq only just got a single currency. This also means it can be traded internationally. What currencies did they have before?
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#92 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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Women can vote. What they can't do is go to work, turn on the lights or get water from the tap.
There are some positive signs, and the insurgency seems to be reducing somewhat. However, day to day, Iraq is still a much worse place to live than it was before the war and is currently the most lawless place on earth. So that's an odd concept of freedom. We haven't even managed to restore the power supply. People do not go out after dark. Last edited by The Gaffer : 12-14-2005 at 05:07 AM. |
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#93 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Political empowerment is the first step towards other freedoms like being able to work. Obviously there are still problems with power, bands of insurgents, drinking water, and other concerns that I can't even begin to grasp. I can't imagine what it's like to be occupied by another country, or have violence in my own city.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#94 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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![]() When you say people in Iraq can't work, drink running water or turn on lights, you're making rather broad generalizations. Some statistics would be appreciated. But anyhow, I'm aware there are problems in parts of Iraq. We are fighting a war in Iraq, and usually wars involve both losses and successes. The Reconstruction efforts have been inhibited by continuing security turmoil. This is because we're at war. But overall, the continued successes in the Iraqi political process and the rising control they're taking over security, if they continue as they are now, make success in Iraq very likely.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#95 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#96 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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I can understand people getting frustrated about reactions to the war in Iraq. I guess it would help if the president didn't pose about like a clown in front of banners saying "Mission Accomplished". Do you get the connection?
I get frustrated too. With the messianic desire of the neo-cons to appear to be on some sort of higher mission when they are really just lining their pockets. When we compare where we are now with what people were saying before the start of the Iraq war, everything that the pro-war people predicted has been proved wrong, and everything that the anti-war people predicted has been proved right. The only lasting positive I can see from it is that Saddam was pulled out of a hole in the ground and thrown in jail. That is a genuinely hopeful outcome. EDIT: if you want statistics on power supplies etc you won't find any because, like civilian casualties, they are not being gathered. However, if you look for proper journalism you will find that daily life for ordinary people in Baghdad is a nightmare. Last edited by The Gaffer : 12-14-2005 at 04:33 PM. |
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#97 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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#98 | |||||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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I never heard any predictions about the length of time the reconstruction would take. I did hear predictions that the war against Saddam would be brief, and that prediction has been fully born out.
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According to the survey this article cites, most Iraqis are optimistic about the future. 53% against 44% said they thought the situation for their country overall was bad right now, and there was a general lack of faith in the coalition forces. In spite of this, 69% said they were sure the situation of their country would improve rather than worsen. 71% said that in their personal lives, according to the survey, "things were going either very well or quite well." Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 12-14-2005 at 11:40 PM. |
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#99 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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About the BBC survey Lief, I very much doubt their sampling techniques. I'm not taking a jab at the BBC, it's just that there are very few journalists venturing outside and doing any real journalism.
This opinion is mostly derived from the latest issue of the Utne Reader which confirmed a growing suspicion I had about journalism in Iraq. According to the Utne reader, most stories you read about Iraq are based on phone conversations with soldiers. If someone is too afraid of violence to go outside, that is the news. You can't get your research second-hand and call it thourough journalism. I don't blame anyone for being afraid, but report the right news hear! It's not a journalists job to be fed the news from an outside source. [/rantage] There is probably a strong bias in that survey for Iraqis who live in the Green Zone, or for people who generally weren't afraid to approach a random person and do a survey. I think if someone is arsed to do the survey, in this case, life must be alright for them and thus the findings are skewed.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#100 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Well, my response to that would be that Oxford is a very liberal place, largely anti-war. The bias of an Oxford Research International poll would be anti-war rather than pro-war. Finding this poll accepted on BBC News, a very liberal paper which tried to shroud the numbers with statements like "our correspondent adds that the survey proves little beyond showing how resilient Iraqis are at a local level - and that it reveals enough important exceptions to the rosy assessment, especially in the centre of the country, to indicate serious dissatisfaction." And other statements of personal opinion and argument such as:
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I haven't been keeping links to all the anti-conservative statements in BBC, so I can't cite much evidence to back my experience. However, I'm sure I could get some for you soon. New articles show up on BBC every day ![]() So because of the likelihood of a liberal slant to this survey, plus the fact that they are a very professional group, the fact that positive numbers have come up makes me consider them to be trustworthy. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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