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#61 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
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IR, cradle of civilization would be the Babylonian and Sumarian civilizations. But I see I did inadvertantly ignore Iraq's midieval history.
Still, they haven't really had the chance at democracy up until now.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#62 | ||||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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And if not democracy - then what you would you like to have? No vote at all? Would you like people to just be picked out of a hat for Congress? I don't understand what people would like when they say they don't like democracy. The opnly thing I think of is that really what they are saying is that they don't like when the majority goes against them and they don't get their way in an election. To me that is just being a baby. It's like throwing a tempertantrum and walking off in a huff because your friends decided they wanted to go to a different movie or go to a different restaurant. Quote:
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Also - this isn't the first time a president has been elected without getting the popular vote. It didn't destroy the country then - it won't destroy the country now. And as fpor the electoral college being chnaged - you better stop thinking about it - because it won't happen. It will require the Constitution to be changed and the states who it was meant to protect will not allow it to be changed. Why should anyone go off to little Hawaii like they did this year - when they could capture enough votes by just going to large metropolitan centers. Quote:
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![]() One more thing on the electoral college - can you imagine a close election if we moved the the popular vote and the ENTIRE nation had to be recounted instead of just one state? Right now it costs millions to just do a recount in one state and takes weeks.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 02-01-2005 at 10:57 AM. |
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#63 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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#64 | ||||||
avocatus diaboli
Join Date: Nov 2004
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#65 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
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Was your vote for Ralph Nader Ellie?
![]() Erm... why does every thread turn into a US politics debate? Even though it is relevant in this thread..... That's interesting about the flag JD. Personally, I can see why they'd want to keep the old one though. Maybe it's like taking ownership of the country. The old flag no longer belongs to Hussein, it belongs to Iraq.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#66 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
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I haven't tested my theory yet, but my guess is that you'll find in most cases the discussion goes astray starting with someone who didn't LIKE the outcome of the US election... and carries it over to other threads. ![]()
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#67 | ||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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#68 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#69 | ||
avocatus diaboli
Join Date: Nov 2004
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![]() I can't respond anymore (and if I do, I probably should bring it over into a US politics thread) right now... I've got class in 13 minutes...
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~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~
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#70 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Anyway - I would rather have the SLIM chance of that happening and living in a democracy - than to live under any of the other systems of governments. As Churchill said 1947... Quote:
As Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence - Quote:
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#71 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
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In Iraq, 'martyrs' and martyrs
Commentary By Uwe Siemon-Netto UPI Religious Affairs Editor GURAT, France, Jan. 31 (UPI) -- The Greek term "martyr," meaning witness, has always had a noble ring until it was usurped by contemporary criminal maniacs killing themselves and thousands of innocent people. Iraq's election Sunday has returned nobility to martyrdom - no thanks to suicide bombers themselves in their relentless war of terror against chiefly women and children, but because of those millions of voters who braved death to bring about a better life for themselves, their neighbors and children. And martyrs - witnesses -- they were indeed, leaving their homes despite threats from terrorists that Iraq's streets would be awash in the voters' blood. Yes, it was an act of martyrdom to bring the kids along to the polling stations so that they will one day witness to their own children that they were there at this momentous event in their country's and the Middle East's history. There is a religious and a profane martyrdom ("shahadat" in Arabic). The two are often intertwined not only in Islam, which does not separate secular from religious realities. Those who resisted Hitler did so out of love for their fellow man -- and for God. Theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer knew that he would probably die when he returned to Germany from the safety of a teaching position in the United States in 1939. But to resist Hitler was to him a sacred as well as a civic duty. Of course you can be a martyr and not get killed; thankfully this proved to be by and large the case in Iraq. But these voters were fully prepared to die, putting in their place international cynics who belittled these elections as a sham. And they did so less out of selfishness than the suicide bombers who murder indiscriminately in Baghdad, Israel or in New York, where they flew hijacked planes into the World Trade Center. The Iraqi voters courted death for the sake of democracy not knowing if they would live to benefit from it in their lifetime; certainly the 94-year old woman who was rolled into a polling station on a wheelbarrow in Mosul could not entertain such expectations. The murderous "martyrs" terrorizing Iraq and its neighbors and the rest of the world do so on the promise of fast-forwarding to Paradise filled with lovely virgins, although the world's Christians, Jews, seculars and presumably most Muslims would rather caution them not to be too optimistic in this regard. The ambiguity of how this latter form of "martyrdom" will be received in the Hereafter is theologically one of the most fascinating aspects of present-day Islam. While this faith sees martyrdom in the form of self-sacrifice as virtuous because it bears witness to God's existence and strengthens the community, it also resolutely denies human autonomy. "One's life is a trust from God, which demands an ongoing relationship between the Creator and the caretaker," according to Islamic theologian Abdulaziz Sachedina of the University of Virginia. "Suicide, as self-murder, is judged accordingly as an affront to God, the individual and the community." Some of the murderers of Sept.11, 2001, exacerbated this aspect of evident godlessness when they bade farewell to the world by enjoying themselves one last time in houses of ill repute. Far from being religiously devout in the traditional sense, Islamists have reinterpreted the classical ethical notion of martyrdom "in an attempt to appropriate different themes and sociopolitical patterns in postmodernity," writes sociologist of religion Babak Rahimi of the European University Institute in Florence, Italy. In other words, this form of "martyrdom" has less to do with faith than with ideology. As a consequence, the Islamists have given their religion a terrible name worldwide - the name of a faith whose "martyrs" randomly kill women and children, as opposed to Christianity, which views martyrdom as none other than radical discipleship -- the full imitation of Christ: "If they persecuted me, they will persecute you, too" (John 15:20). Seen in this light, Iraq's election has a very powerful religious dimension: With their bravery and willingness to accept martyrdom, these voters have made a huge contribution to the restoration of Islam's image as a credible religion - an image so gravely tarnished by killers and thugs for far too long. END ********* A ninety-six year old being wheeled to vote in a wheelbarrow at the threat of extremists blowwing up the polls! I'd say the Iraquis were determined on changing order and government!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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#72 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
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I'm beginning to hope... even to maybe think... that January 30, 2005 may prove to be a very significant day for the world.
[slight sarcasm] Good thing Bush and his people weren't smart enough to know that this would never come off, eh? ![]() I only hope that now... at least... the other world powers will come together to provide some very real help. If not for the sake of the US... certainly for the sake of the Iraqi people. Who knows... the Iraqi people may get their democracy AND end up hating us for the next 60, 70 or 100 years. But... knowing that we helped them gain their freedom... it'll be worth it. ![]()
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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#73 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Oh well - I'm not too concerned what they think anymore - just as long as we follow through on Iraq. That is the one thing about Bush - and it pisses off the world - when bush says he'll do something - he follows through to the end. He went to the world community and tried getting them involved - they didn't want to be. With Clinton's record - we would have been out of their after the first terrorist bombing - and that's the type of person Europe prefers. The person who will put their finger in the wind and test where the polls are going. That isn't a leader - that's a poltician. Quote:
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#74 |
Orodruin's Flame
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Is it true the whole process of vote counting takes over a week? Is this to ensure a fair counting system? Or because of something else?
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Council of Entmoot - Foreign Affairs Minister - 2004-05 Visit the Ye Olde Avatar Shop and The New One Dont tell me what I cannot do Two men are on a Island, they both see a "monster", one sees a bright light, and the other sees a dark cloud My name bares no reference to the music artist. |
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#75 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#76 | |
Orodruin's Flame
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Council of Entmoot - Foreign Affairs Minister - 2004-05 Visit the Ye Olde Avatar Shop and The New One Dont tell me what I cannot do Two men are on a Island, they both see a "monster", one sees a bright light, and the other sees a dark cloud My name bares no reference to the music artist. |
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#77 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#78 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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I figured I'd throw this in here. It was in Time Magazine in an interview with Gaddafi.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 02-01-2005 at 06:25 PM. |
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#79 | |
Honourary Elitist Inklette
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: between the mountains and the sea
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#80 | |
The Intermittent One
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