Dual citizenship

[Millane]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

I don't think it would be mean at all. She either wants to be Swedish - or she wants to be Russian. It used to be that people who moved to the US - like my family did - gave up their citizenship and were HAPPY to become a member of that society and country. I think people have to make a choice of what they want. Sorry - but life is full of making choices and sacrifices.

Why sacrifice unnecessarily? i have a friend whos going to get his british citizenship aswell as his aust one so he can travel next year and work for as long as he wants (just just like any other british citizen) and just live with his family over there, personally i think dual citizenships rock and i dont really see the problem.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

So why do you need TWO countries? Especially the US and Canada - there is hardly a border between us. You don't need a passport, they hardly ask anything when you even go across the border. "Citizenship? Where you going? okay - go through".

Hardly a border! There's hardly a physical border (even though you can see it from a plane), but there's more to dual citizenship than that. It's an affirmation of your roots, from both sides of your family.

edit: spelling

[Earniel]

I have mixed feelings about dual citizenship. I can understand the emotional attachment to your first nation but at the same time I think that when you move to another country and want to be reckoned part of that nation, you should do so wholly and not keep your old nationality too at the same time. In this case it shouldn't matter whether your countries are separated by a single border or half a continent. It's one thing or the other, you can't have both. It wouldn't be completely fair, IMO.

But then again, I don't think I should see every case that black-and-white. In some cases dual citizenship seems the better solution for people who do indeed belong to each country equally in terms of spending time there, knowing the culture or have family there. But I still don't think you should be able to vote in both countries at the same time.

Thus I'm undecided.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Since Earniel didn't carry over the post I wrote which started this whole discussion I'll post it here....

This should actually be the first post in the thread.

I cannot split posts, JD. In this case it wasn't easy to split both topics and at the same time keep both discussions running without large holes in them.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Hardly a border! There's hardly a physical border (even though you can see it from a plane), but there's more to dual citizenship than that. It's an affirmation of your roots, from both sides of your family.

I can't see a border between the US and Canada from a plane. What border are you talking about seeing from a plane?

If you leave your country and you wish to move - you are picking up your roots. Just like I had to do when I was FORCED to move to Indiana - which I did not want to do. I could have dual citizenship between NJ and Indiana - and I accepted that. I used to say I'm a New Jerseyan living in Indiana.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

I can't see a border between the US and Canada from a plane. What border are you talking about seeing from a plane?

If you fly from Vancouver to Seattle (which I did to get a connection to Copenhagen, but that's another story), and you look out the window, you can see a wide, straight swath cut through the forest. It goes on as far as you can see out of the plane. I could be wrong though. It just occured to me that this could be the location of an extremely huge power line. That wasn't central to my point anyway, I just thought it was interesting.

If you leave your country and you wish to move - you are picking up your roots. Just like I had to do when I was FORCED to move to Indiana - which I did not want to do. I could have dual citizenship between NJ and Indiana - and I accepted that. I used to say I'm a New Jerseyan living in Indiana.

You mean you retained your New Jersey citizenship, though living in Indiana? How does citizenship work between states in the USA? In Canada, you have to get new ID etc. and possibly take another driving exam, but there isn't much legal difference. It's more as you described ("I used to say I'm a New Jerseyan living in Indiana."), you might say "I'm an Albertan living in British Columbia."

EDIT: Actually, you don't necessarily have to get new ID when moving provinces.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

If you fly from Vancouver to Seattle (which I did to get a connection to Copenhagen, but that's another story), and you look out the window, you can see a wide, straight swath cut through the forest. It goes on as far as you can see out of the plane. I could be wrong though. It just occured to me that this could be the location of an extremely huge power line.

It was most likely a huge powerline. I've flown between the US and canada on the way from Britain - we flew right over Niagara Falls - there is no visible dividing line between the countries.

You mean you retained your New Jersey citizenship, though living in Indiana? How does citizenship work between states in the USA? In Canada, you have to get new ID etc. and possibly take another driving exam, but there isn't much legal difference. It's more as you described ("I used to say I'm a New Jerseyan living in Indiana."), you might say "I'm an Albertan living in British Columbia."

I meant I didn't want to be an indianian - and expecially not a Hoosier. I refused to acknowledge that I was an Indiana citizen - therefore I said I was a New Jerseyan living in Indiana - I had to give up my citizenship in New Jersey. It was not my choice to move and my parents even offered to let me move in with my grandmother in NJ - but they I decided to stay with my family.

As for you being an Albertan living in British Columbia - I guess that would depend if you want to be British Columbian or not. Do you want to be living where you live? or would you rather be in Alberta?

EDIT: Actually, you don't necessarily have to get new ID when moving provinces.

Here you have to get new car registration, new license plates, new license, you have reregister to vote (that even goes for if you move from town to town though).

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

It was most likely a huge powerline. I've flown between the US and canada on the way from Britain - we flew right over Niagara Falls - there is no visible dividing line between the countries.

There is a powerline around there actually, I just thought it would be running a different direction. Well that clears that one up.

As for you being an Albertan living in British Columbia - I guess that would depend if you want to be British Columbian or not. Do you want to be living where you live? or would you rather be in Alberta?

That's actually not me, I was just making up an example. However, if it was me, I'd keep my British Columbian citizenship. I would probably always think of myself as a BCer on a certain level, even if I moved to Alberta for the rest of my life. (Like you in Indiana.) I think it would be hard enough to identify with a new place if you moved voluntarily, and much worse if you were forced to uproot.

Here you have to get new car registration, new license plates, new license, you have reregister to vote (that even goes for if you move from town to town though).

You do have to register to vote provincially, and you would have to change your federal registration too. (I have yet to successfully vote in a federal election, but that's a different thread.)

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

That's actually not me, I was just making up an example. However, if it was me, I'd keep my British Columbian citizenship. I would probably always think of myself as a BCer on a certain level, even if I moved to Alberta for the rest of my life. (Like you in Indiana.) I think it would be hard enough to identify with a new place if you moved voluntarily, and much worse if you were forced to uproot.

Moving volumtariuly is on thing - the person has chosen to move. My ancestors moved from Europe to here, they gave up their old citizenship. There wasn't this in between crap then.

Also I couldn't keep my New Jersey citizenship at all. If you can no longer vote in your old place (with me - NJ), if I can not keep my old license and so forth - then I could not be a New Jersey citizen. So whyy the hell do people who come here from other countries get to do that - when I can't in my very own country? It pisses me off that someone can come here - decide to become a US citizen for the sole purpose of voting in OUR elections, yet keep their old citizenship - with all the rights that entails.

[HOBBIT]

so far i havent read much of this topic (but i am reading it)

just wondering, if you have dual citizenship with two countries, you have to pay taxes to both, right? that can't be too fun.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by HOBBIT

so far i havent read much of this topic (but i am reading it)

just wondering, if you have dual citizenship with two countries, you have to pay taxes to both, right? that can't be too fun.

No - you don't have to pay taxes to two countries - just the one you actually reside in.

[Nurvingiel]

Do you really think people apply for dual citizenship just to influence the vote and/or national politics? Given the voter turnout of the previous Canadian election (~60%) I doubt it happens here. What was the voter turnout in the previous American election?

This discussion originally started because Jim Carrey (Canadian) applied for US citizenship as well. Did he retain his Canadian citizenship? In this case, I say, make up your mind! Perhaps there's a more complicated situation involved that we don't understand.

But IMHO there's nothing inherantly wrong with having dual citizenship, especially if your parents of different nations.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i have no intention of voting in ireland,
unless i move back there and stay there,
my duality is merely a means of seeing my
friends and relations,

everyone's a cynic!

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Do you really think people apply for dual citizenship just to influence the vote and/or national politics? Given the voter turnout of the previous Canadian election (~60%) I doubt it happens here. What was the voter turnout in the previous American election?

What does voter turnout have to do with this? ASnd in case you haven't noticed - this is a VERY heated election in the US.

This discussion originally started because Jim Carrey (Canadian) applied for US citizenship as well. Did he retain his Canadian citizenship? In this case, I say, make up your mind! Perhaps there's a more complicated situation involved that we don't understand..

As I said - which I guess you did not read - he STATED he became a US citizen for the SOLE purpose of voting in OUR election and yes - he has kept his Canadian citizenship. Now tell me - wouldn't you be pissed if Americans came to canada - became dual citizens and then stated the only reason why was so they could vote in YOUR elections?

Here is a repost of my original post that started this. It explains everything...

Jim Carrey just became a "US Citizen". In the car I heard it on the radio - and they said he was going to be a dual citizen and keep his Canadian citizenship also. I think dual citizenship is wrong and I had thought about the voting situation when they said it - he gets to vote in both Canadian and American elections. When I came home - CNN had it on. Guess why he decided to get US Citizenship? So he frigging vote in OUR elections. I wonder - maybe I should gettiung dual citizenship in Canada - so I can vote there for people I want, and still be able to vote in US elections. Either you ARE America - or you are not - you are NOT both US Citizen and a citizen of another country as far as I am concerned. I think the US should do away with dual citizenship. It is completely unfair that non-citizens can become citizens - just so they can vote here - and then not even have to give up their citizenship to their "other" country.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

i have no intention of voting in ireland,
unless i move back there and stay there,
my duality is merely a means of seeing my
friends and relations,

everyone's a cynic!

Get a visa or passport. I can go up to canada and basically stay as long as I want - as long as I don't work or anything. I can't see why you would need dual citizenshiup to visit your friends or family. Gal went to england for about a month - he doesn't have dual citizenship there - he was visiting family. I don't buy the "I need it to visit family and friends"

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Get a visa or passport. I can go up to canada and basically stay as long as I want - as long as I don't work or anything. I can't see why you would need dual citizenshiup to visit your friends or family. Gal went to england for about a month - he doesn't have dual citizenship there - he was visiting family. I don't buy the "I need it to visit family and friends"

well, it is obvious that we conduct ourselves in a slightly different manner over here, than you do in america. We (as britons) like a certain formality, and thats just the way it is.

But you do raise some interesting points.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

well, it is obvious that we conduct ourselves in a slightly different manner over here, than you do in america. We (as britons) like a certain formality, and thats just the way it is.

What the hell that supposed to mean? You mean formality like the zoo in parliament where everyone screams and shouts over each other? And what does formality have to do with having dual citizenship to visit friends. Here going to canada is basically like to another state - except that you have to answer a couple of questions - and most of the border isn't even patrolled or have custom agents.

[Nurvingiel]

That's Canada with a capital "C". This is slightly off-topic, but I think you're right about the border. My parents went to Arizona for three weeks, and they camped most of the time and did a lot of hiking. In the end, they only spent about 200$, which is unusual for a trip that long. When they declared this on the way back, the customs agent didn't even raise an eyebrow, and they were sure that they were going to get asked more questions. I guess a middle-aged couple driving a station wagon aren't high priorities. They had similar ease crossing the border into the USA.

However, this doesn't negate the importance of dual citizenship for cultural identity.

What was the original story about Jim Carrey?

EDIT: Normally your posts make a lot of sense Chrys, but I'm afraid the point of your last one is lost on me. Originally, I thought you were referring to Canada's parliment yelling and screaming (re: the "side of bacon" incident). Politicians are human, and they make mistakes and lose their tempers too. But what does that have to do with dual citizenship?

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

However, this doesn't negate the importance of dual citizenship for cultural identity.

You still have your cultural identity - even if you aren't a dual citizen. I still make many of the ethnic foods my grandmothers made which they got from their mothers and relatives who came over form Europe.

What was the original story about Jim Carrey?

On CNN when they reported it on TV - they said he had stated the reason why he wanted to become a citizen was so he could vote in our election on November 2nd

EDIT: Normally your posts make a lot of sense Chrys, but I'm afraid the point of your last one is lost on me. Originally, I thought you were referring to Canada's parliment yelling and screaming (re: the "side of bacon" incident). Politicians are human, and they make mistakes and lose their tempers too. But what does that have to do with dual citizenship?

Well I was the one that brought up the yelling and screaming in parliament - because in our Congress - except on occassion - it is very calm where it is one person having the floor to speak, the speaker then gives another member so many minutes to speak, etc. In parliament, and I have watched the Canadian parliament on C-SPAN also - everyone is screaming back and forth. So I can't see how parliament is really a formal thing, whereas our Congress is much more formal (except for the pomp and circumstance and the big show).

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

You still have your cultural identity - even if you aren't a dual citizen. I still make many of the ethnic foods my grandmothers made which they got from their mothers and relatives who came over form Europe.

I don't mean to say you have no cultural identity without dual citizenship, rather that for some people, this is part of their identity. They should be allowed to have it IMHO.
This reminds me, for some reason I thought you weren't allowed to have dual citizenship in the USA. Is that an old policy, now changed, or did I just hear the wrong information originally?

On CNN when they reported it on TV - they said he had stated the reason why he wanted to become a citizen was so he could vote in our election on November 2nd

In this context, it seems like he was joking.

Well I was the one that brought up the yelling and screaming in parliament - because in our Congress - except on occassion - it is very calm where it is one person having the floor to speak, the speaker then gives another member so many minutes to speak, etc. In parliament, and I have watched the Canadian parliament on C-SPAN also - everyone is screaming back and forth. So I can't see how parliament is really a formal thing, whereas our Congress is much more formal (except for the pomp and circumstance and the big show).

I don't see how a formal/informal parliment has anything to do with dual citizenship. It is worth pointing out though, that that even though debates can get heated sometimes, they remain respectful most of the time. Canadian, British, and American parliments/senates are all formal in their own ways. Who's ever heard of an informal government? (Rhetorical question.) And that, as they say, is that.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I don't mean to say you have no cultural identity without dual citizenship, rather that for some people, this is part of their identity. They should be allowed to have it IMHO.
This reminds me, for some reason I thought you weren't allowed to have dual citizenship in the USA. Is that an old policy, now changed, or did I just hear the wrong information originally?

I think a US citizen can not take allegiance to another country - which seems to make dual citizenship impossible.

In this context, it seems like he was joking.

Well I can't really

I don't see how a formal/informal parliment has anything to do with dual citizenship. It is worth pointing out though, that that even though debates can get heated sometimes, they remain respectful most of the time. Canadian, British, and American parliments/senates are all formal in their own ways. Who's ever heard of an informal government? (Rhetorical question.) And that, as they say, is that.

Well they didn't actually say anything about parliament. they were just saying in general that they're a more "formal" country - whatever that means. As for parliaments versus congress - Congress isn't really a free for all where people are jumping in and yelling questions and answer back and forth across a room.