muslims PART 2

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

Because I don't see the point in debating with a wall.

I had already formed conclusions for myself on this issue before entering this debate. Otherwise I would not have debated, but would only have listened. I dare say the same is true of you. No one argues if they don't already have a view, for otherwise what would they say? The view people start out with may be considered a bias, and I understand that people will always have their start-out biases when they enter a debate. So yes, I am biased now. However, I try to think carefully about every point people raise, and if what they say is beyond my current knowledge, to research them.

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

If someone refuses to even consider the real-world underpinnings behind the religious attrocities of the past and the future there is nothing I can say to change that.

You can only lead a horse to water...

I have considered the real-world underpinnings you speak of, and I agree that environment is an important factor. I have never denied that.

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

Simply put, everything is a factor, but environment far outweighs the purely theological.

I think this is a large generalization. While sometimes environment is very likely the most important factor, other times, religion is the very likely the most important factor. As I argued in post 49. And I've done more research this weekend, by the way. I can now cite more examples, ones that are very large scale and clearly purely religion.

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

The simple fact that perfectly peaceful, yet devout muslims, exist in some parts of the world proves that it must be something other than the muslim belief that leads to violence.

Not necessarily, for the peace is a modern twist in an overall violent history, and the trend is back toward violence. It's also true that people do interpret their religions in different ways. The liberal interpretation of Islam is, I agree, far less violent than fundamentalist Islam. However, fundamentalist Islam is what the religion has been over most of the spectrum of history, fundamentalist Islam is what the religion started out as, and fundamentalist Islam is what it is more and more reverting back to.

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

And the fact that christians can be very violent proves that that religious belief system does not necessarily lead to peace.

No, because it's more than one religious belief system you're looking at, more than one interpretation of Christianity, just as we're seeing more than one interpretation of Islam.