Victimless crimes

afro-elf · 06-03-2002, 01:54 PM

What are your thoughts on victimless crimes?

galadriel88 · 06-03-2002, 02:19 PM

OK, I'm really stupid, I know, but what is a victimless crime? Doesn't every crime have a victim?

markedel · 06-03-2002, 02:48 PM

A crime always has a victim.

LuthienTinuviel · 06-03-2002, 03:42 PM

say joe stole steves burger, so steve orders pizzas to joe's house.
they even each other out.
is that a victimless crime?

StrawberryIcecream · 06-03-2002, 03:47 PM

nah, becuase the pizza probably cost more

If a crime was victimless, there wouldnt be a crime.

Human#3.141592653 · 06-03-2002, 03:53 PM

Is what you mean like ripping off a pair of Nikes, in which the victim is a corperation (ei, an ideal or an organization that doesn't really exist in the smae way that if you were to steal to shoes off of a bum on the street)? (Yes Afro elf, my spelling adn grammer nearly rivals your own!)
Hmmm, depends on the crime, there's always the cliche of the man stealign bread to feed his family....
Or running with scissors.

Most of the things that are condisidered mistomeaners; like grafti, most of which is cool, but some is simply...yeah. Any way, some things that are consider crimes are not all that bad. I don't mind grafti.
But I digress.
I think you need to express more fully what you mean by "Victimless crime."

afro-elf · 06-03-2002, 03:54 PM

Sorry but you are wrong here are examples of them

simply as acts prohibited by the law that have no victim. Every participant in these illegal activities is willing and consensual, and therefore no participant is a victim of a crime nor a perpetrator of a crime against another. Examples of victimless crimes which , are prostitution, the use and distribution of illicit drugs, gambling, obscenity and pornography.

Lizra · 06-03-2002, 05:02 PM

The family or loved ones of a person doing any of those things would be victims. Shame, loss of money, warped attitudes toward sex, endangering health when others might be depending on you, etc. I'm sure their are all sorts of "second hand victims".

afro-elf · 06-03-2002, 05:36 PM

but it seems that you are taking them to the extreme.

If someone smokes a joint every now and then.

Someone wants to gamble when the moods hits them

some one wants to buy an adult movie

someone pays someone for the service of sex

I don't think the exampes just given lead to the extreme end mentioned above.

afro-elf · 06-03-2002, 05:48 PM

also this would include laws about homosexuality, interracial marriage, censorship etc

Lizra · 06-03-2002, 06:37 PM

The things you mentioned in the first post have the tendency to be addictive. That's probably why I jump to the worst case senario, I guess it's the ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure deal. Prostitution is unsettling because you have to carefully examine why the other person is providing the sex. I'm skeptical about it! Homosexuality and inter racial marriages are certainly not crimes in my book.

Censorship falls back on the prevention thing, I don't know, I have to think about that some more.

BeardofPants · 06-03-2002, 06:41 PM

If it's between consensual parties, then I don't have a problem. However, sometimes it CAN spin out of control, and it is in these instances that we need some sort of ... um... safety net? All of those so-called victimless crimes CAN create victims, because there are always going to be people out there who take it it extremes, and become addicts - sex, gambling, drinking, drugs, etc.

However, homosexuality and inter-racial marriage can't, IMHO, be considered to be crimes, let alone victimless crimes!

As for censorship. Well. Don't get me started on this particular societal evil!

Rána Eressëa · 06-04-2002, 01:26 AM

Tough one. I say what one person does with their life is fine, until it comes to the point where it causes physical or severe mental pain upon others (hurt pride, shame, etc. do not count as worthy mental pains).

Homosexuality - Doesn't bother me. I don't believe in laws against it.

Inter-racial marriage - I support it one-hundred percent. If there is anyone who has made a law against this, they better run and hide before I get ahold of them!

Censorship - They say it's for the kids. I say, "If it's a word - it's a word - leave it alone. Now, if it's seeing someone's guts ripped out . . . well, that's a different story."

afro-elf · 06-04-2002, 01:44 AM

I believe that there are till laws in America that make Homosexuality and interracial a crime. They are just not enforced anymore, but they have not been strikcen from the bookes either.

BeardofPants · 06-04-2002, 01:47 AM

Yes. Don't some southern states stipulate against sodomy still?

Rána Eressëa · 06-04-2002, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Yes. Don't some southern states stipulate against sodomy still?

Sodomy in the state of Georgia is worthy of - at the minimal punishment - 10 years in state prison.

BeardofPants · 06-04-2002, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa

Sodomy in the state of Georgia is worthy of - at the minimal punishment - 10 years in state prison.

Remind me not to do sodomy in Georgia then.

That's really bad!

Rána Eressëa · 06-04-2002, 01:57 AM

I know. Personally, I think it's stupid. They even have a law that says "if you are below the age of sixteen, you do not have the right or the free will to engage in sexual intercourse". I can't imagine how many people broke that one.

BeardofPants · 06-04-2002, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa
I know. Personally, I think it's stupid. They even have a law that says "if you are below the age of sixteen, you do not have the right or the free will to engage in sexual intercourse". I can't imagine how many people broke that one.

Oh, it's the same in NZ. You can't engage in sexual intercourse without your parents permission under the age of sixteen. Yeah, so you're REALLY gonna ask for permission to shag your boyfriend if you're too young.

***Khamûl*** · 06-04-2002, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Yes. Don't some southern states stipulate against sodomy still?

I'm pretty sure that it's still against the law here in Alabama too. And I think that we have statutory rape or something where if someone who is not a minor has sex with a minor they can be arrested. I'm not 100% sure about that though.

06-03-2002, 01:54 PM	#1
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Victimless crimes What are your thoughts on victimless crimes? __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

06-03-2002, 02:19 PM	#2
galadriel88 Halfwitted Queen of Lothlorien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Far off in a dream Posts: 1,166	OK, I'm really stupid, I know, but what is a victimless crime? Doesn't every crime have a victim? __________________ The beuatiful mind/The beautiful heart/Doesn't deserve the pain/How can I stop the rain? -How Can I Stop the Rain? by Kessid, my new favorite band +Every good thing that comes into my life is only a reflection of the greatest gift of all; the offering of yourself, dear Son of God+ Always remember, you're uniqe, just like everybody else! "The one constant through all the years has been the Trombone. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. Its been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again, but the Trombone has marked the time. This field, this section, this band is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and could be again. Oh, people will come . . . people will most definitely come."

06-03-2002, 03:42 PM	#4
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	say joe stole steves burger, so steve orders pizzas to joe's house. they even each other out. is that a victimless crime? __________________ Last edited by LuthienTinuviel : 06-03-2002 at 03:43 PM.

06-03-2002, 03:47 PM	#5
StrawberryIcecream Elf Lord Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: In my jeans Posts: 915	nah, becuase the pizza probably cost more If a crime was victimless, there wouldnt be a crime. __________________ www.foolofatook.com for all you pippin's out there.

06-03-2002, 03:53 PM	#6
Human#3.141592653 Elven Warrior Join Date: May 2002 Location: Truth or Consequences, New Mexico Posts: 292	Is what you mean like ripping off a pair of Nikes, in which the victim is a corperation (ei, an ideal or an organization that doesn't really exist in the smae way that if you were to steal to shoes off of a bum on the street)? (Yes Afro elf, my spelling adn grammer nearly rivals your own!) Hmmm, depends on the crime, there's always the cliche of the man stealign bread to feed his family.... Or running with scissors. Most of the things that are condisidered mistomeaners; like grafti, most of which is cool, but some is simply...yeah. Any way, some things that are consider crimes are not all that bad. I don't mind grafti. But I digress. I think you need to express more fully what you mean by "Victimless crime." __________________ You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you.

06-03-2002, 02:48 PM	#3
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	A crime always has a victim. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

06-03-2002, 03:54 PM	#7
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Sorry but you are wrong here are examples of them simply as acts prohibited by the law that have no victim. Every participant in these illegal activities is willing and consensual, and therefore no participant is a victim of a crime nor a perpetrator of a crime against another. Examples of victimless crimes which , are prostitution, the use and distribution of illicit drugs, gambling, obscenity and pornography. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

06-03-2002, 05:02 PM	#8
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	The family or loved ones of a person doing any of those things would be victims. Shame, loss of money, warped attitudes toward sex, endangering health when others might be depending on you, etc. I'm sure their are all sorts of "second hand victims". __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

06-03-2002, 05:36 PM	#9
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	but it seems that you are taking them to the extreme. If someone smokes a joint every now and then. Someone wants to gamble when the moods hits them some one wants to buy an adult movie someone pays someone for the service of sex I don't think the exampes just given lead to the extreme end mentioned above. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

06-03-2002, 05:48 PM	#10
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	also this would include laws about homosexuality, interracial marriage, censorship etc __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

06-03-2002, 06:37 PM	#11
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	The things you mentioned in the first post have the tendency to be addictive. That's probably why I jump to the worst case senario, I guess it's the ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure deal. Prostitution is unsettling because you have to carefully examine why the other person is providing the sex. I'm skeptical about it! Homosexuality and inter racial marriages are certainly not crimes in my book. Censorship falls back on the prevention thing, I don't know, I have to think about that some more. __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 06-03-2002 at 06:51 PM.

06-03-2002, 06:41 PM	#12
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	If it's between consensual parties, then I don't have a problem. However, sometimes it CAN spin out of control, and it is in these instances that we need some sort of ... um... safety net? All of those so-called victimless crimes CAN create victims, because there are always going to be people out there who take it it extremes, and become addicts - sex, gambling, drinking, drugs, etc. However, homosexuality and inter-racial marriage can't, IMHO, be considered to be crimes, let alone victimless crimes! As for censorship. Well. Don't get me started on this particular societal evil! __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

06-04-2002, 01:26 AM	#13
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	Tough one. I say what one person does with their life is fine, until it comes to the point where it causes physical or severe mental pain upon others (hurt pride, shame, etc. do not count as worthy mental pains). Homosexuality - Doesn't bother me. I don't believe in laws against it. Inter-racial marriage - I support it one-hundred percent. If there is anyone who has made a law against this, they better run and hide before I get ahold of them! Censorship - They say it's for the kids. I say, "If it's a word - it's a word - leave it alone. Now, if it's seeing someone's guts ripped out . . . well, that's a different story."

06-04-2002, 01:44 AM	#14
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I believe that there are till laws in America that make Homosexuality and interracial a crime. They are just not enforced anymore, but they have not been strikcen from the bookes either. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

06-04-2002, 01:47 AM	#15
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Yes. Don't some southern states stipulate against sodomy still? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

06-04-2002, 01:57 AM	#18
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	I know. Personally, I think it's stupid. They even have a law that says "if you are below the age of sixteen, you do not have the right or the free will to engage in sexual intercourse". I can't imagine how many people broke that one.

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