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#1 |
Entmoot Secretary of the Treasury
Join Date: Feb 2003
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![]() Should'nt Narnia supposed to be somewhere beyond Mordor? I personally think it should, although it's by different authors [after all, C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien were best friends (so I've heard)]? Actually, they have some of the same place names, such as the Northern Wastes. Wouldn't that be interesting?!
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KI6PFA Amateur Radio Operator Last edited by trolls' bane : 02-17-2003 at 05:12 PM. |
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#2 |
Mirthful Maiden
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rivendell
Posts: 1,252
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They were best friends? Really?
That would be cool if Narnia was beyond Mordor. I loved all of those stories and have read them a lot. But they are so different.....almost as if they don't belong in the same world, but thats just my opinion... |
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#3 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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They were very good friends, indeed. Both members of the Inklings.
I agree, though; Narnia is an altogether different world from this one.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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#4 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 222
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Wow... that would be awesome! *Starts thinking about writing a crossover fic*
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a violinist... |
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#5 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Beyond the fields we know...
Posts: 17
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That's right. Both members of the Inklings, and every Tuesday they would share ideas with one another and pieces that they had written. So of course their work turned out somewhat similar.
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#6 |
Guy-who-should-come-here-more-often
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Alberta, in spirit -- Vlaanderen, in body (Canada? Never heard of it!)
Posts: 120
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While I love both literary corpi (gee, it's fun seeing if I can use big words properly that I don't understand), the respective qualities of each are not exactly complementary. I think a marriage of the two would be a bit of a monstrosity. Tolkien's avoidance of "allegory" is partially directed against Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia, which were allegorical par excellence. Lewis drew an awful lot from Greek/Roman myth (satyrs, dryads, talking animals, etc.) whereas Tolkien drew from Northern European myth (dragons, elves, dwarves, etc.). Tolkien took extreme care to sub-create a believable and self-sustaining literary universe. Lewis didn't (and it's no wonder he didn't, he had alot of other books to write) but often borrowed a few nice-sounding "fantasy names" from Tolkien -- e.g., Cair Pairavel (sp? I believe the "Cair" bit is a direct rip-off of Cair Andros, whereas the "Pairavel" bit is just a meaningless sound he invented...). Methinks that to officially join these two sorts of "worlds," as likeable as both of them may be, it would be a bad match.
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Amandil Mithadan "Why would you want to tamper with anything Tolkien did?" --Ralph Bashki "Seeking self, I find nothing but myself, but in this I drink the cup of gall I really am. I want everything, and I may have everything, but I have nothing except what I have. What I have I know is not what will fulfill me, and I know this in the bitterness of satisfied desire. Everything I have is still not enough, and in getting everything I have, I have not myself, indeed what I have may have twisted what I am and might be into an image of my own possessions. I will to possess, but I end up possessed by what I possess." -- William Desmond (Ethics and the Between, p. 209-210) |
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#7 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Cair, or caer, is an ancient name for a fort, so no one stole it.
![]() It's easy to accidentally borrow ideas from authors who influence your work. I'm sure two Inklings would be in this situation.
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#8 |
the dumb stoner canuck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: canada
Posts: 2,542
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has anyone actually seen the movie on the witch,the lion and the wardrobe(ithink that is what is called)
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#9 | |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,870
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Quote:
IMO, as has already been said, Middle Earth and Narnia are too different to be compared.
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#10 |
Mirthful Maiden
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rivendell
Posts: 1,252
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I saw a cartoon called The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe
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#11 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: a castle made of clouds
Posts: 459
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Quote:
![]() ![]() ![]() This is the best known one, I think, if there's just one. I saw it when I was little. It was actually pretty good, I think... but of course, I was little. I wasn't a very good judge. It was either made by PBS or BBC, I think... some public station. There were movies for most of his other books, too, made by the same people.
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Human kind cannot bear very much reality. dreamflower - for all things Lady Galadriel |
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#12 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Queen's
Posts: 1,245
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Yes. I would think that Tolkien would dislike the allegorical nature of Narnia, even if he was good friends with Lewis. Both did share similar views in many things as I understand it, but ME is far more "sub-creative" in my mind.
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"Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom" |
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#13 |
Halfwitted
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Eryn Vorn
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Some parts of Narnia would fit into Middle Earth. The southern lands of Narnia (from The Horse and His Boy), would make a nice Harad. But the lands were the main stories take place are too different. Narnia is more of a fairy tale universe, while LotR is similar to ancient heroic epics like Beowulf and such. In LotR things are not so obviously "magical"; rather, Tolkien tried to build a perfectly believable, logical, and dignified universe. And of course, LotR is more of an adult book, while Narnia is for kids (although both books can be read by anyone!).
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#14 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
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Actually, Tolkien hated the Narnia books- he felt they were just a jumble of things tossed together with a heavy-handed dose of allegory.
And, Tolkien and Lewis were friends, but their friendship ended for a variety of reasons.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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#15 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
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Quote:
![]() Anyway, there were two, I think; one cartoon, and one live-action movie (which had, if I remember, Voyage of the Dawn Treader and Prince Caspian all rolled up in one, LLT, and The Silver Chair. Left my favorite one out ![]()
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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#16 |
Mirthful Maiden
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rivendell
Posts: 1,252
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Yes, I have read the whole series and loved them!
I've heard of the live action movies but I don't want to see them. The stories are so different from LOTR, I can see why Tolkien would dislike them. It is more of a fairy tale world with all the magical creatures; but that was one reason I like them so much. It surprises me to find they were friends. |
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#17 | |
Guy-who-should-come-here-more-often
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Alberta, in spirit -- Vlaanderen, in body (Canada? Never heard of it!)
Posts: 120
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Quote:
![]() Why did Lewis and Tolkien end their friendship, anyway?
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Amandil Mithadan "Why would you want to tamper with anything Tolkien did?" --Ralph Bashki "Seeking self, I find nothing but myself, but in this I drink the cup of gall I really am. I want everything, and I may have everything, but I have nothing except what I have. What I have I know is not what will fulfill me, and I know this in the bitterness of satisfied desire. Everything I have is still not enough, and in getting everything I have, I have not myself, indeed what I have may have twisted what I am and might be into an image of my own possessions. I will to possess, but I end up possessed by what I possess." -- William Desmond (Ethics and the Between, p. 209-210) |
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#18 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
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I'm not an expert, but from what I've read-
Tolkien disliked Lewis's new friend Charles Williams, who was fairly heavily into the occult (and whom Tolkien may have considered not up to the same intellectual standard) Tolkien was disappointed that when Lewis became a Christian he didn't become a Catholic ( a bit much to ask from one of Protestant Ulster stock) Tolkien was (supposedly) jealous of Lewis's success, and/or felt that Lewis was jumping in over his head in his theological writings, rushing to publish without taking time to reflect and study.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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#19 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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From what I've read in Tolkien's letters, it seems like they didn't have bad blood between them, but it was more a case of changing interests and different friends and things. 'Tho Tolkien certainly wished Lewis would become a Catholic, I think they were both mature enough Christians to deal with the differences, although Tolkien noted that Lewis seemed to be very prejudiced against some of the Catholic beliefs. When Lewis died, Tolkien was very deeply affected - he wrote something like 'when other friends die, it's like losing branches off a tree; when Jack died, it was like an axe-blow to the trunk...'
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! ![]() "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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#20 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
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OOPS, cut myself off
And, Tolkien opposed Lewis's marriage, though I haven't been able to find out why- if he was objecting to her being divorced, which would invalidate it in Tolkien's view, or whether it was personal - after all, she was -horrors!-American.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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