09-18-2003, 05:15 AM | #1 | |
Lord of the Pants
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Still justified?
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Sexed up dossiers... Tony Blair in the hot seat... ignored intelligences... suicide... Inquiries... Lack of Weapons of Mass destruction. This topic has certainly been interesting to say the least. So, what are your thoughts now given all that has happened (or hasn't)? Do you still hold the same POV as pre-war? Could things have been done better? (or worse?) |
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09-18-2003, 06:14 AM | #2 |
Possessive Villain Fancier
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I think that war is/was/will always be futile.
Plus, I think that governments are too involved with themselves. Politics makes me angry. In a television interview Tuesday night, Rice said one of the reasons Bush went to war against Saddam was because he posed a threat in "a region from which the 9/11 threat emerged." I've not seen any indication that would lead me to believe that I could say that. That sentence is a perfect example of why I hate them. The first one is subtle manipulation and the second is covering tracks. (As I perceive it.) But anyway, in response to you Sheeana, I don't think things could've gone any better. With people this stupid in charge we could never have hoped for much. I think replying to this was a bad idea.
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09-18-2003, 07:52 AM | #3 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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"With this stupid in charge"! That bad, eh!
Well....I'm glad Sadam Hussien was sent packing, though he's still out there, that's not good. I'm glad his sons are gone, but, if this was in the best interest of the US, I'm not sure yet. It was an interesting move, (to say the least! ) with lots of positives for the Iraqi people, so I'll hold judgement. World politics (human relations) are multi faceted and complex. I don't veiw this as a stituation where one can just go "right or wrong" in a nutshell and tie things up in a neat little package. The upcoming presidential election will be some icing on this cake. I have to tune out most of the "spin" and just watch what "really" happens. The story is nowhere near over. US needs to pull out, Iraqis need to take control and govern their country. A substantial amount of years (4 or 5) will help veiw this realistically, not with a knee jerk reaction.
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09-18-2003, 09:42 AM | #4 |
im quite stupid
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I personally never felt the attack was justified at all. I never belived they had WMD or posed any threat to the west. As ive said i think he was quite happy playing dictator in his own little country.
Now heres the problem with this issue theres no doubting sadam was a bad man and the iraqi people are probably better off without him but i feel the allience has failed thus far to impliment a good system of government in Iraq! I rember the stuff we were having fired at us when we went to war by both the US and the British goverments about the clear and present danger. Now it appears that they were incapiable of holding back a few stampeading cows let alone a military operation those have been rightly called into doubt. Of the WMD no evidence has ever been found of these! makes you think Of links with Al queda well britian probally has as many people living in it with links to Al queda as Iraq ever did! the real thing that has bothred me about the war on iraq has been the power that Bush has had to go to war i mean no other country really backed him up or saw it the way he did i dont know if hes parinoid or just lives in his own world either way his justifications have proved ill founded so why did he go to war? Just clearing up his dads mess? If thats true im more affraid than any attack by osama could make me
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09-18-2003, 10:20 AM | #5 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I think it was justified. As I have repeatedly said - it should have been done in 1991.
As for the comment in the article saying that "U.S. President George W. Bush conceded for the first time yesterday that the United States had no evidence indicating Saddam Hussein had anything to do with the Sept. 11 terror attacks." He NEVER EVER said that Saddam Hussein had ANYTHING to do with 9/11. That has just been people's own opinions. It's interesting that the Sun did not indicate that his statement was the result of a reporter's question concerning whether Hussein had anything to do with 9/11. Bush never hinted at links either other than that Al Qaeda was known to be in Iraq (which they were). Hussein managed to bury huge fighter jets in the sand - do you think it would be hard for him to bury or hide WMD? Whether we find WMD or not - there is no question as to whether he had them. The WHOLE world believed he had them - including Clinton while he was president. Also - WMD was only one reason for it - and not my main reason for supporting the war. I still think the Iraqi people are much better off without Hussein and it is obvious that the MAJORITY of Iraqis feel this way too. Some Iraqi and OUTSIDERS may not like us being in there - but it would be completely counterproductive for us to get out. There is NO WAY we can get out until the job is finished. As for whether things could have been done better or worse - I think some things could have been better and some could have been far worse. The "do nothings" wanted to argue that the US was going to be suffering huge terrorist attacks on US soil - where we have not. The Arab league has accepted the interim government. Could the peace be going better - yes it could. But the attacks on American soldiers is occurring in a relatively small section of Iraq, while the rest of the area is getting back to normal. Things weren't going to be miraculously fixed in Iraq, but I think that a lot has been done. I would rather spend the $89 billion working on stabalizing the area over there - than spend $89 billion rebuilding things here after a terrorist attack. There are several reason for the deficit - the main cause being the loss of high paying jobs as a result of unemployment, the downturn in the stock market (both of which started occuring a year before Bush became president), not to mention the outpouring of money that the government had to give after 9/11. Everyone seems to forget how devastating 9/11 was outside of the loss of human lives.
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09-18-2003, 10:42 AM | #6 | ||||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 09-18-2003 at 11:42 AM. |
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09-18-2003, 11:11 AM | #7 |
im quite stupid
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lol is there anything your presidents say that you dont believe?
Sadam got a good old ass kicking when he invaded Kuwait i think he realised the limits of his own power! Lol if ignorance of bliss ur the happiest man alive! 20+ day operation admitally but we had mounths of propgander unlike you i didnt believe all all of it. Look JD im sure you have a lot of faith in the word of your preseident i mean it not a politicians way to lie is it? But end of the day the US is gonna have to at some point come up with some evidence for all these claimes that they make? Dont you think. If you took your argueement for way to a court i think you would be laughed out. Infact we do give them health care and also allow them to preach to people. Oh and we also allow them to become elected officials in our government (see shinn fain) I fail to see what we ever had to gain from the war apart from Blair getting some brown noseing points! Im sorry JD but i just fail to see how pissing a whole looad of Arabs off is gonna help against terrorism! I have never understood what u really hoped to achive with war on iraq! you have just made a whole heep of new problems. As history will show a nation only really gets sorted out when it sorts itself out
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Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot Last edited by Sween : 09-18-2003 at 11:13 AM. |
09-18-2003, 11:35 AM | #8 | ||||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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By the way - can you demonstrate the "whole heep of new problems" that have been created? Remeber these have to be NEW problems that didn't exist PRIOR to the war. Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 09-18-2003 at 11:38 AM. |
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09-18-2003, 11:52 AM | #9 | |
King of Nargothrond
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09-18-2003, 11:54 AM | #10 |
im quite stupid
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Please can someone please explain to me what the big deal with Bin Lardin is please? Im sorry its been 2 years now so a few of his supporters highjacked a couple of plance and flew them into the world trades centres. No offence but its hardly the most amazing act ever is it?
This is the opinion of many people in other countries yes the 9/11 attacks were bad but you have made a big deal out of them its probably because as a nation you have not been touched by major war on your own soil for a long time. But i think a reality check is in order to go comparing Bin lardin to Hittler is a joke. Hittler was a reconised leader of his nation! And had huge power of industy and resources. Now Bin Lardin is some terrorist and has you where he wants you. In terror of him! Can i just ask you this one question now give me a honest answer. Why is that these people hate you and wanted to hurt you? was it because of your involvment in the middle east? was it because you stick your nose in where it not needed? well if it was dont you think youve just made things a hell of a lot harder on yourselves?
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Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
09-18-2003, 11:58 AM | #11 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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We didn't get into it because it wasn't our war and Europe had just gotten us into one of their war about 20 years before. We lost 400,000+ soldiers during WWII.
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09-18-2003, 12:06 PM | #12 | |
im quite stupid
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We hadnt gotten you into any war either you chose to come and help after years of begging and millions of lives lost on our side! You in these last few weeks have really began to show yourself up JD! A poor example of your country
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Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
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09-18-2003, 12:15 PM | #13 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Comments like your makes me wish that you gusy would get as devestating an attack. You are so ignorant of how huge those buildings were because you don't have anything like them in Europe. The held more office space than all of San Diego. Would you think it was a big frigging deal if a nuclear bomb was dropped on san Diego? True - there wasn't that many dead overall (just 3,000 innocent lives), but if it happened during the height of the work day you would have been talking about upwards of 50,000 people (that's the number who worked there). That does NOT include the visitors that would have been at the observation deck. Here is a video tape I made - this shows the view from the roof and the observation deck... High speed connection 56k Don't talk ignorant crap like that. Quote:
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Maybe you should read what they teach in Saudi Arabia - Inside the Kingdom Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 09-18-2003 at 12:27 PM. |
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09-18-2003, 12:20 PM | #14 | |||||
Slacker
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09-18-2003, 12:20 PM | #15 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 09-18-2003 at 12:29 PM. |
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09-18-2003, 12:35 PM | #16 |
Banned
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There's a lot I could say but it's either already been said, or I'm too disgusted to say it right now.
Sween, do you ever watch international news at all? Do you know what happens in Israel? Do you know what happens in the middle east at all? wtf? You need to be more informed than to listen to propoganda against the US. For the record, I never wanted to go to war with Iraq, my views have not changed. But not for the reasons you think. I've heard the news reports, unlike some , of how Hussain murdered Curds, all the injustices against his own people, the elaborate lifestyle while his people went without under the embargo. These were not local news casts, they were respected reporters from international news teams. All in all, I think we did the Iraqi people a favor, but at out expense. In the long run, they will only curse us for the help and aid we give them. |
09-18-2003, 12:37 PM | #17 |
Hobbit
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Many of you say that the President lied about WMD in Iraq. I am curious, would you then consider these quotes lies?
"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." and this one... "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security."
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09-18-2003, 01:42 PM | #18 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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No, can't say that I do. I follow those lines of reasoning fairly well.
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09-18-2003, 02:03 PM | #19 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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<sigh> Thanks Sheanna Another political thread that obviously can't be discussed without tempers flaring, including my own. I can't say what I'd like to say to some of you, but I will say this to all of you... This thread is closed.
When you can discuss this topic by following Entmoot posting policies, and not flame and country bash, then, and only then, will it be permitted. From now on, any threads of a political nature that are not discussed within the guidelines of this messageboard, will be closed on sight. Why does this community continue to shoot itself in the foot? These discussion have always been welcome and always will be, when they can be discussed in an intelligent and calm fashion. Until you prove to be able to do that, this thread and all others like it WILL BE CLOSED
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