Is this a Photo of Grishnakh?

bropous · 09-24-2002, 11:43 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,63898,00.html

Story on The Two Towers, some jerk from Fox News got to watch SIXTEEN MINUTES OF FILM FROM THE TWO TOWERS!!!! Plus, to add insult to injury, the moron says his only interest in Tolkien's books stopped at The Fellowship of the Ring. Pultroon.

Anyways, at the top of the story there is a photograph of a black-faced Orc. He looks like an older Orc, not young and vigorous like the Uruk-Hai. This leads me to believe that this is, if not Grishnakh, one of the Orcs of the Red Eye, and that the argument between the factions WILL appear in the film. I am truly hoping so.

Also, remember from the theater 3.5 minute trailer where Merry and Pippin are looking over this face which looks like it is dead, kinda deformed? I think it's the Orc in the above-referenced photograph.

All in all, I think we're getting a hint that the great scene where Mordor's and Isengard's Orcs are arguing over the captives will be in the film, and that's good news to me, as it is one of my all-time favorite parts of the story.

Sween · 09-24-2002, 01:33 PM

Could be. Ive noticed that the mordor orcs from the battle of the last allience look quite diffrent to the Uruk-Hai.

Would new line realease a promotional photo of a character of no intrest what so ever?

***IronParrot*** · 09-24-2002, 02:18 PM

I too love the quibbling between the Mordor and Isengard orcs, but I'm still highly doubtful that this will happen. There is no indication in the film of The Fellowship of the Ring that any orcs were sent besides Saruman's forces from Isengard.

Of course, it should be noted that this black-faced orc does not bear the White Hand on his face, as Saruman's orcs did...

bropous · 09-25-2002, 02:37 PM

Well, good point, IP, I had thought about the absence of the White Hand as well, but figured someone could just say the war paint just kinda sweated off.

But this Orc looks different, and as Sween pointed out, does it make a heck of a lot of sense that New Line would release a promotional shot of a minor minor character? And to me, I cannot see the tale being successfully relayed without adding the tension between the Two Towers, but then again, maybe Jackson thought that it would be too confusing to movie audiences to understand that the two could be allied and yet working at cross-purposes to each other at the same time.

If Grishnakh's character and activities are missing from the film, I believe it would be as objectionable as replacing Glorfindel with Arwen, stealing Frodo's lines at the Fords of Bruinen, or turning Frodo into a running coward on Amon Sul. However, much to our collective chagrin, all these changes to the story WERE perpetrated, so it is highly possible that Grishnak is out, Saruman dies impaled on a spike at Isengard, and the Scouring is omitted entirely, as the rumors have us believing so far.

***IronParrot*** · 09-25-2002, 04:35 PM

Well, I would argue that the tension between Barad-dur and Orthanc isn't being entirely omitted. I never quite understood where, after the release of FOTR, people came up with the whole argument that the film made Saruman look far more in cahoots with Sauron than he originally was. In both the film and the novel, Saruman is indeed subservient to Sauron but with the intention of usurping the latter by finding the Ring first. It's just that in the book, specifically in the chapter "The Council of Elrond", we don't know that yet, because the whole deal with the palantir isn't revealed until later.

One of the key lines in the film in terms of understanding this is when Saruman asks his Uruk-hai chieftain, "Whom do you serve?" and he replies, "Saruman!"

However, all that aside, I still hope that the infighting between the bands of orcs is shown. Perhaps in the first film, Saruman's intentions were not made clear enough to the audience. And visually speaking, I think the look of this orc in the publicity still is different enough from what we saw in FOTR that people will be able to identify and understand the conflict readily.

bropous · 09-25-2002, 05:18 PM

Good points, and agreed.

Rána Eressëa · 09-26-2002, 06:24 PM

No, I don't think that's him. It looks far from what I pictured him as.

ArwenEvenstar · 09-28-2002, 08:48 PM

what do you mean that he dosen't look like how you pictured him, alot of stuff in the movie don't look like how we pictured them...

durin's bane · 09-29-2002, 09:18 PM

i think it might be him. he looks sort of how i pictured him, only without the big red scar i imagined him with

viggosbeard · 09-30-2002, 11:41 AM

have to dissagree im afraid - thats not grishnak, i dont know for sure who he is, probably a similar character to lurtz ie sarumans general. im sure ive seen a picture of grishnak and hes a really sly ,stooped creature who has slightly bald eagle type features -
but you dont have to beleive me if you dont want to !

bropous · 09-30-2002, 01:29 PM

Well, I guess if it ain't Grishnakh, but you've seen a pic of him, viggosbeard, at least we know he is still in the film. The part we don't know (and probably won't until the film is released) is how far from the original story, once again, Peter Jackson will stray.

Farewell to Kings is a really great album...

Blackheart · 09-30-2002, 01:59 PM

The uruk pictured appeares aged somehow. An odd concept for Jackson to use for the "newly-created" Uruk-hai.

durin's bane · 09-30-2002, 09:22 PM

yeah, he looks kinda old. and really hairy. maybe he's been in the su too long. maybe pj made him 1000000 years old. i dunno. it just looks like that orc dude. kinda

Shadowfax · 09-30-2002, 09:37 PM

Viggosbeard (and others): are these the pictures of Grishnakh that you've seen? I found these on the "Quintessential LOTR Website" which has tons of images and the complete script.
http://www.quintessentialwebsites.co...extrapics2.htm (You have to scroll down a bit)

viggosbeard · 10-01-2002, 05:26 AM

shadowfax - hard to tell as its not the same photo, the one i saw was straight after you see merry and pippin crouching on the ground looking up in terror, then the pic of this very scraggly orc
( no way was it anything like an uruk ) walking towards them with a raised scimitar. Is that the mark of the eye on his forehead by the way ?
just a thought on the big nasty uruk ( that may be Grishnak ), could this be Mauhaur ( think thats how you spell it ) leader of the Isenguard orcs ?
Bropous - you are a man of taste indded.

***azalea*** · 10-01-2002, 03:23 PM

I don't know if that's Grishnakh, but I DO know that I for one will be very disappointed if they leave this episode out, as it is my favorite from book three.

durin's bane · 10-01-2002, 09:45 PM

i just read that part in the two towers last night, and it said that girishnak looked like a "crooked legged creature with long arms" so obviously grishnak is an orc from morodr or something, not an uruk hai

bropous · 10-02-2002, 09:38 AM

I think very few of us, durin's bane, were laboring under the misapprehension that Grishnakh was an Uruk-Hai.

Rána Eressëa · 10-02-2002, 04:45 PM

I pictured Grishnakh as sorta green-skinned, crooked and bowled legged with long arms. That first one looks like an Uruk-hai.

09-24-2002, 11:43 AM	#1
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Is this a Photo of Grishnakh? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,63898,00.html Story on The Two Towers, some jerk from Fox News got to watch SIXTEEN MINUTES OF FILM FROM THE TWO TOWERS!!!! Plus, to add insult to injury, the moron says his only interest in Tolkien's books stopped at The Fellowship of the Ring. Pultroon. Anyways, at the top of the story there is a photograph of a black-faced Orc. He looks like an older Orc, not young and vigorous like the Uruk-Hai. This leads me to believe that this is, if not Grishnakh, one of the Orcs of the Red Eye, and that the argument between the factions WILL appear in the film. I am truly hoping so. Also, remember from the theater 3.5 minute trailer where Merry and Pippin are looking over this face which looks like it is dead, kinda deformed? I think it's the Orc in the above-referenced photograph. All in all, I think we're getting a hint that the great scene where Mordor's and Isengard's Orcs are arguing over the captives will be in the film, and that's good news to me, as it is one of my all-time favorite parts of the story. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

09-24-2002, 01:33 PM	#2
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	Could be. Ive noticed that the mordor orcs from the battle of the last allience look quite diffrent to the Uruk-Hai. Would new line realease a promotional photo of a character of no intrest what so ever? __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

09-24-2002, 02:18 PM	#3
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	I too love the quibbling between the Mordor and Isengard orcs, but I'm still highly doubtful that this will happen. There is no indication in the film of The Fellowship of the Ring that any orcs were sent besides Saruman's forces from Isengard. Of course, it should be noted that this black-faced orc does not bear the White Hand on his face, as Saruman's orcs did... __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

09-25-2002, 02:37 PM	#4
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Well, good point, IP, I had thought about the absence of the White Hand as well, but figured someone could just say the war paint just kinda sweated off. But this Orc looks different, and as Sween pointed out, does it make a heck of a lot of sense that New Line would release a promotional shot of a minor minor character? And to me, I cannot see the tale being successfully relayed without adding the tension between the Two Towers, but then again, maybe Jackson thought that it would be too confusing to movie audiences to understand that the two could be allied and yet working at cross-purposes to each other at the same time. If Grishnakh's character and activities are missing from the film, I believe it would be as objectionable as replacing Glorfindel with Arwen, stealing Frodo's lines at the Fords of Bruinen, or turning Frodo into a running coward on Amon Sul. However, much to our collective chagrin, all these changes to the story WERE perpetrated, so it is highly possible that Grishnak is out, Saruman dies impaled on a spike at Isengard, and the Scouring is omitted entirely, as the rumors have us believing so far. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

09-25-2002, 04:35 PM	#5
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	Well, I would argue that the tension between Barad-dur and Orthanc isn't being entirely omitted. I never quite understood where, after the release of FOTR, people came up with the whole argument that the film made Saruman look far more in cahoots with Sauron than he originally was. In both the film and the novel, Saruman is indeed subservient to Sauron but with the intention of usurping the latter by finding the Ring first. It's just that in the book, specifically in the chapter "The Council of Elrond", we don't know that yet, because the whole deal with the palantir isn't revealed until later. One of the key lines in the film in terms of understanding this is when Saruman asks his Uruk-hai chieftain, "Whom do you serve?" and he replies, "Saruman!" However, all that aside, I still hope that the infighting between the bands of orcs is shown. Perhaps in the first film, Saruman's intentions were not made clear enough to the audience. And visually speaking, I think the look of this orc in the publicity still is different enough from what we saw in FOTR that people will be able to identify and understand the conflict readily. __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

09-25-2002, 05:18 PM	#6
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Good points, and agreed. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

09-26-2002, 06:24 PM	#7
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	No, I don't think that's him. It looks far from what I pictured him as.

09-28-2002, 08:48 PM	#8
ArwenEvenstar Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: and why do YOU want to know? Posts: 685	what do you mean that he dosen't look like how you pictured him, alot of stuff in the movie don't look like how we pictured them... __________________ The only thing active about me is my imagination!

09-29-2002, 09:18 PM	#9
durin's bane Lady of Westernesse Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada (Help! Our parliament building is melting!) Posts: 761	i think it might be him. he looks sort of how i pictured him, only without the big red scar i imagined him with __________________ Yada, yada, yada

09-30-2002, 11:41 AM	#10
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	have to dissagree im afraid - thats not grishnak, i dont know for sure who he is, probably a similar character to lurtz ie sarumans general. im sure ive seen a picture of grishnak and hes a really sly ,stooped creature who has slightly bald eagle type features - but you dont have to beleive me if you dont want to ! __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

09-30-2002, 01:29 PM	#11
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Well, I guess if it ain't Grishnakh, but you've seen a pic of him, viggosbeard, at least we know he is still in the film. The part we don't know (and probably won't until the film is released) is how far from the original story, once again, Peter Jackson will stray. Farewell to Kings is a really great album... __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

09-30-2002, 01:59 PM	#12
Blackheart Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Darkness Posts: 1,211	The uruk pictured appeares aged somehow. An odd concept for Jackson to use for the "newly-created" Uruk-hai. __________________ I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ...

09-30-2002, 09:22 PM	#13
durin's bane Lady of Westernesse Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada (Help! Our parliament building is melting!) Posts: 761	yeah, he looks kinda old. and really hairy. maybe he's been in the su too long. maybe pj made him 1000000 years old. i dunno. it just looks like that orc dude. kinda __________________ Yada, yada, yada

09-30-2002, 09:37 PM	#14
Shadowfax The Fleet-Footed Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: British Columbia Posts: 913	Grishnakh Viggosbeard (and others): are these the pictures of Grishnakh that you've seen? I found these on the "Quintessential LOTR Website" which has tons of images and the complete script. http://www.quintessentialwebsites.co...extrapics2.htm (You have to scroll down a bit) __________________ Jesus saved me "To remain ignorant of things that happened before you were born is to remain a child" (Cicero, 106-43 B.C.) "Art is a lie which makes us realize the truth" (Picasso)

10-01-2002, 05:26 AM	#15
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	shadowfax - hard to tell as its not the same photo, the one i saw was straight after you see merry and pippin crouching on the ground looking up in terror, then the pic of this very scraggly orc ( no way was it anything like an uruk ) walking towards them with a raised scimitar. Is that the mark of the eye on his forehead by the way ? just a thought on the big nasty uruk ( that may be Grishnak ), could this be Mauhaur ( think thats how you spell it ) leader of the Isenguard orcs ? Bropous - you are a man of taste indded. __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

10-01-2002, 03:23 PM	#16
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I don't know if that's Grishnakh, but I DO know that I for one will be very disappointed if they leave this episode out, as it is my favorite from book three.

10-01-2002, 09:45 PM	#17
durin's bane Lady of Westernesse Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada (Help! Our parliament building is melting!) Posts: 761	i just read that part in the two towers last night, and it said that girishnak looked like a "crooked legged creature with long arms" so obviously grishnak is an orc from morodr or something, not an uruk hai __________________ Yada, yada, yada

10-02-2002, 09:38 AM	#18
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	I think very few of us, durin's bane, were laboring under the misapprehension that Grishnakh was an Uruk-Hai. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

10-02-2002, 04:45 PM	#19
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	I pictured Grishnakh as sorta green-skinned, crooked and bowled legged with long arms. That first one looks like an Uruk-hai.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Why Pippin says 'gollum, gollum' to Grishnakh	Lotesse	Lord of the Rings Books	23	05-11-2006 11:55 AM
One Hour Photo	IronParrot	Entertainment Forum	2	10-02-2002 07:22 PM
do you like my new icon and photo?	andustar	General Messages	12	06-02-2000 12:35 AM