Can Eagles be corrupted?

tolkienfan · 10-06-2005, 12:20 AM

Can't Eagles get corrupted? I really have no idea.

[EDIT: This discussion is split off the thread Lord Elrond's mistake]

rohirrim TR · 10-06-2005, 10:40 AM

i doubt it, but that might be a good plot twist for an rpg, just picture eagles taking over middle earth

The Witch-King of Angmar · 10-07-2005, 01:52 AM

Then again the Eagles were never formally allied to the Free Peoples, they usually do there own thing. Like the Ents.

Gordis · 10-07-2005, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tolkienfan

Can't Eagles get corrupted? I really have no idea.

No they can't, IMHO. They are birds of Manwe!

If they didn't help the quest more, it is just because the Lords of the West (the Valar) decided not to meddle in the ME life directly.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 10-07-2005, 11:52 AM

Well the Maia who were sent as the Istari weren't allowed to directy fight Sauron using there powers, so I'm guessing that the same applied to eagles.

Gordis · 10-07-2005, 12:06 PM

Exactly, TD!

The last sane person · 10-07-2005, 01:43 PM

Man, that's crap, those Valar are really an uncertain bunch....Just because it wasn't in the blasted song, they don't bother with it...One hit Wonders that they are....No improv skill whatsoever....

tolkienfan · 10-07-2005, 09:49 PM

Wizards can get corrupted... but I'm not trying to disagree with you!

Curubethion · 10-07-2005, 10:01 PM

And when they get corrupted, it's terrible. That's why they didn't interfere. And the eagles...I think Sauron would have noticed them immediately, and sent all his forces: fell beasts, the balrog (if he could)...

Jon S. · 10-07-2005, 10:49 PM

Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor?

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto/eagles.html

The Witch-King of Angmar · 10-08-2005, 08:12 AM

Thats what this thread is about JS.

and Cubetheron, Sauron can't control The Balrog's can he? Because they are creatures of Morgoth (Saurons master i think) who is imprisoned in the Undying Lands.

Also maybe Prof. Tolkein wanted to make the Valar like God, he is all powerful, but he always makes us fight our own battles. Maybe thats why the Eagles and Maia weren't allowed to fight him directly.

Jon S. · 10-08-2005, 09:36 AM

LOL!

Of course it is - why else would I post a link to a website entitled by its author, "Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor?" P.S. Click on it, you might like it.

Elanor · 10-08-2005, 07:01 PM

Plus, if the eagles could have just flown off with the ring and plopped it into Mount Doom, the book would be a lot shorter!

rohirrim TR · 10-08-2005, 09:36 PM

yes elanor thats the whole point i think, i mean only tolkien knows but the eagles were pretty powerful and they probably (if they were united) could have taken mordor out by them selves, but then there would be no story, this is the way it always works with what if scenarios,

i did the same thing with starwars one time on a blog, and we all got lost because we eliminated vader and then there was no story

Jon S. · 10-09-2005, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elanor

Plus, if the eagles could have just flown off with the ring and plopped it into Mount Doom, the book would be a lot shorter!

That's what's known as an "external to the story" factor, i.e., it may have influenced Tolkien but not Elrond and the rest of his council.

This all is discussed at length on the page I linked to previously.

rohirrim TR · 10-12-2005, 02:54 PM

yeah thanks for the link jon.s

it brought up most of the stuff that i think of when people start up "what if " type of conjecture

Tamuril Sirfalas · 11-08-2005, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohirrim TR

i doubt it, but that might be a good plot twist for an rpg, just picture eagles taking over middle earth

wow now that would be something to chat about for days * hides in cellar while eagles maul outside* thats one thing i would not like to experience but i think the eagles could get corrupted they are just like everyone else and plus they probally have something they desire doesnt everyone?

durinsbane2244 · 11-08-2005, 08:53 PM

i think that, as mortal living creatures, and obviously more intelligent than the eagles of earth, they could corrupt...

Tamuril Sirfalas · 12-20-2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by durinsbane2244

i think that, as mortal living creatures, and obviously more intelligent than the eagles of earth, they could corrupt...

yes i think that the eagles could be corrupted, they like everything get corrupted eventually dont they?

Lotesse · 12-20-2005, 08:21 PM

I believe the point about the evil of the Ring was that absolutely EVERY living thing had potential to become corrupted by it. No one was immune, even though some were much less or much more naturally susceptible, in the end, not a soul was immune completely. So, of course the eagles were corruptible. That's what I think.

I guess the only actually incorruptible being in LotR was Bombadil, but I bet if he'd kept it, everything & everyone AROUND him or whatever - like Goldberry, for instance - would have been vulnerable to its corruptability, so by proxy he would also end up being touched & corrupted by its evil.

10-06-2005, 12:20 AM	#1
tolkienfan Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Internet Posts: 803	Can't Eagles get corrupted? I really have no idea. [EDIT: This discussion is split off the thread Lord Elrond's mistake] __________________ Don't be hasty! Thanks so much to Last Child of Ungoliant, Twista, and BeardofPants for my avatar! Last edited by Earniel : 10-08-2005 at 10:36 AM.

10-07-2005, 01:52 AM	#3
The Witch-King of Angmar Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 143	Then again the Eagles were never formally allied to the Free Peoples, they usually do there own thing. Like the Ents. __________________ *"Do not come between the Nazgûl and his prey"* I'm an Xbox Guy! Xbox Guys

10-07-2005, 11:52 AM	#5
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Well the Maia who were sent as the Istari weren't allowed to directy fight Sauron using there powers, so I'm guessing that the same applied to eagles. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

10-07-2005, 01:43 PM	#7
The last sane person The Black Númenórean Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,773	Man, that's crap, those Valar are really an uncertain bunch....Just because it wasn't in the blasted song, they don't bother with it...One hit Wonders that they are....No improv skill whatsoever.... __________________ Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

10-07-2005, 09:49 PM	#8
tolkienfan Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Internet Posts: 803	Wizards can get corrupted... but I'm not trying to disagree with you! __________________ Don't be hasty! Thanks so much to Last Child of Ungoliant, Twista, and BeardofPants for my avatar! Last edited by tolkienfan : 10-07-2005 at 10:00 PM.

10-07-2005, 12:06 PM	#6
Gordis Lady of the Ulairi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 2,783	Exactly, TD!

10-07-2005, 10:01 PM	#9
Curubethion Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: College! Posts: 1,976	And when they get corrupted, it's terrible. That's why they didn't interfere. And the eagles...I think Sauron would have noticed them immediately, and sent all his forces: fell beasts, the balrog (if he could)... __________________ Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan)

10-07-2005, 10:49 PM	#10
Jon S. Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 455	Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto/eagles.html

10-08-2005, 08:12 AM	#11
The Witch-King of Angmar Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 143	Thats what this thread is about JS. and Cubetheron, Sauron can't control The Balrog's can he? Because they are creatures of Morgoth (Saurons master i think) who is imprisoned in the Undying Lands. Also maybe Prof. Tolkein wanted to make the Valar like God, he is all powerful, but he always makes us fight our own battles. Maybe thats why the Eagles and Maia weren't allowed to fight him directly. __________________ *"Do not come between the Nazgûl and his prey"* I'm an Xbox Guy! Xbox Guys

10-08-2005, 09:36 AM	#12
Jon S. Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 455	LOL! Of course it is - why else would I post a link to a website entitled by its author, "Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor?" P.S. Click on it, you might like it. Last edited by Jon S. : 10-08-2005 at 09:58 AM.

10-08-2005, 07:01 PM	#13
Elanor Hobbit in the Music Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Westmarch Posts: 1,111	Plus, if the eagles could have just flown off with the ring and plopped it into Mount Doom, the book would be a lot shorter! __________________ Middle Earth Crossword Puzzle on the Tolkien Site of DOOM Segovia Mazes

11-08-2005, 08:53 PM	#18
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	i think that, as mortal living creatures, and obviously more intelligent than the eagles of earth, they could corrupt... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

12-20-2005, 08:21 PM	#20
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	I believe the point about the evil of the Ring was that absolutely EVERY living thing had potential to become corrupted by it. No one was immune, even though some were much less or much more naturally susceptible, in the end, not a soul was immune completely. So, of course the eagles were corruptible. That's what I think. I guess the only actually incorruptible being in LotR was Bombadil, but I bet if he'd kept it, everything & everyone AROUND him or whatever - like Goldberry, for instance - would have been vulnerable to its corruptability, so by proxy he would also end up being touched & corrupted by its evil. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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