04-07-2004, 01:22 PM | #1 |
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Sonnet 130
I do not dispute that Shakespeare wrote a tremendous poem in Sonnet 130, but I question it on a philosophical level. Bit rich from a sixteen year old I know.
I question whether the notion of the perception of love is correct. Is it right to love for humanity, or should not the love be given on the perception of the almost divinity of whom one loves?
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04-09-2004, 07:19 AM | #2 |
Lady of Letters
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You're talking about Shakespeare's "My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun" sonnet, aren't you?
Well, the first thing I'd say is it's not meant to be taken too seriously. Shakespeare wasn't averse to a bit of deification of women normally, but here he's gently pointing out the absurdity of claiming that every girl you happen to have a crush on is a perfect goddess. The clue is in the final couplet: "And yet, by heaven, I think my love as fair As any she belied with false compare" (from memory - forgive mistakes) He's saying it's wrong to call a woman a goddess when she isn't - it means you don't understand what makes her special. It's a trick of lazy poets to talk about eyes like the sun, breath like roses etc. This sonnet brings it down to earth a bit without diminishing in any way the reality of the love. That's why we forget the lazy poems and remember Shakespeare.
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04-12-2004, 04:34 AM | #3 | |
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04-21-2004, 11:25 PM | #4 |
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This sonnet is actually the cause of much debate and argument. I had to study it at Uni, twice in fact, once in "rennaisance literature", and once in "studying poetry", (you'd think a bloody university would sort itself out!).
There are two basic ways to read it: The first is that shakespeare is playing parody on contempory sonnets of the day. So thus " have seen roses damask’d, red and white, But no such roses see I in her cheeks," is a satire of other sonnet writers, whom contend the objects of their works have rosey cheeks. The second is that Shakespeare is having a barb at Anne Hathaway, his forlorn and unhappy wife. Shakespeare married young, as he got poor Anne pregnant, and left her in Stratford to go to London and write. So thus "And in some perfumes is there more delight, Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks, " is an insult to Anne, or indeed, all women. I prefere to read it as a satire, just because it makes Will Shakespeare seem no so much like a bastard!
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04-22-2004, 07:13 AM | #5 |
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Good grief! Did you just see that?
Fenir made a post which wasn't meant to be funny, contained no jokes about the shortness/roundness of our American bretheren, didn't act as a means for him to put his head between the jaws of JD and, above all, was not concerned with his fireman's hose, which I with many still contend is a small gardening impliment. We don't do any sort of context for literature at GCSE level... dumb school. All we got was 'in those days, some people had mistresses...'
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
04-22-2004, 10:28 PM | #6 |
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I did that sonnet for my English class (we had to recite poems). It is one of my favorites. It's a great mockery of all the other sonnets that were being written at the time (including some of Shakespeare's), which tended toward, as has been mentioned, deification of their subject.
Plus, in a Shakespearian style of sonnet, the last two lines are supposed to undercut the rest of the poem: so if they are complimentary, the rest of it has to not be.
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04-23-2004, 04:02 AM | #7 | |
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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04-24-2004, 12:00 PM | #8 | |
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I'm sure I could point out that the time of the Brilliant William Shakespeare, a time in which Europe was enjoying a golden age of culture, industry, and military conquest; the Puritans were starving to death in Jamestown (thanks indeed for thanksgiving??),but that would just be naughty... I agree with the Count, thats its a satire. God its good to be back.
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05-06-2004, 01:37 AM | #9 |
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A friend of mine had the interpretation of "I love you, but why? There are prettier people out there." She's had some relationship issues lately though, so she looked at it differently than I did.
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05-06-2004, 11:04 AM | #10 |
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I agree, I've had that too It really sucks that someone who you don't even like can completely alter your view of literature. Or is that the beauty of literature, that it can vary so vastly depending on its reading? *Stikes another thoughtful pose*
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
05-07-2004, 11:11 PM | #11 | |
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05-08-2004, 01:27 PM | #12 |
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That's bad luck. Had he not known nothing about Shakespeare he may have even seen it as a good choice.
I think my ex blames Catcher in the Rye for my breaking with her...
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
05-09-2004, 01:26 AM | #13 |
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Bless his heart. I shouldn't be laughing, but I am.
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05-09-2004, 01:43 AM | #14 |
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Well, you'd expect an English Prof's daughter to know BOTH interpretations...
But poor guy.
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05-09-2004, 01:16 PM | #15 |
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CC: I'm sure she knew the other interpretation, but you have to admit that women would rather hear, "you're so beautiful, but that isn't the only reason I love you." Rather than, "Well, beauty isn't the important thing, anyway."
Khamul: I heard somewhere that "Bless your heart" is Southern for "What an idiot"...is that true? :-D
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05-12-2004, 02:03 AM | #16 |
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Crickhollow: Well... not exactly. It can mean that you genuinely feel sorry for someone. However, it is an unwritten rule that you can say something mean about someone if you include "Bless his heart" in there somewhere. Example: "She got locked out of her car in the pouring rain? Bless her heart." or "But Kevin, bless his heart... he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer." Occasionally, it's a mix of the two, as in my last post. Sometimes, the comment is left unstated because the "Bless their heart" gets the message across that there's more to it. So yes, it can mean "what an idiot". I hope this entry in my "Guide to Southernisms" helped.
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05-12-2004, 02:13 AM | #17 |
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Absolutely...thanks so much for enlightening me.
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