06-18-2008, 06:16 PM | #1 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ
Posts: 6,433
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Abortion II
The original Abortion thread can be found here: http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=11539
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06-18-2008, 06:37 PM | #2 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Women are entitled to the exclusive use of their own bodies, without parasitic growths being forced upon them.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
06-18-2008, 07:55 PM | #3 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
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I see your sound bite, and I raise you a sound bite:
Human parasitic growths have a right to be given a chance at life.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
06-18-2008, 07:58 PM | #4 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Are you talking about rape?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
06-18-2008, 08:13 PM | #5 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
If you had done it, you wouldn't be so glib about the task.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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06-18-2008, 08:25 PM | #6 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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No, rape isn't the only issue. I want women to be pregnant when they want to, and not other times. But a variety of things go into women becoming pregnant, and all of those things need work. Men have limited responsibility, even in 'intact' families it winds up her responsibility, and the impact is on the children and all the community.
Abortion is a tough choice. But I believe we need it as a choice.
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
06-18-2008, 08:42 PM | #7 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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Quote:
Whether or not you're going to be judged shouldn't be your main concern. Looking at the matter in those terms only is selfish. The point is, if I'm wrong about this, then millions of women suffer (though there are plenty of adoption agencies that are open to more babies, and I'm fine with raising taxes as much as is necessary to provide more support to single mothers). If you're wrong, then millions of babies die. Mass murder is far, far more grave an issue than that of some women's economic wellbeing. Quote:
What do you do with the insane, or the retarded? Still advanced, but less advanced, so do they deserve conditions of the same quality as the rest of humanity? Or what do you do with aged people who are getting senile or slow in the mind and rely on other people to take care of them? Do they deserve the same treatment as the rest of humanity? You open up the doors to a lot of disturbing questions if you allow the extermination of fetuses on the grounds that they don't fulfill your above requirements for value.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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06-18-2008, 09:03 PM | #8 | |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
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Quote:
And before anti-choice advocates keep going on about adoption as if it were the gold at the end of the rainbow, let me tell you a story about adoption. My father was abandoned at the age of five. His oldest sister, who was nine at the time, was left to take care of the child for six months. Alone. His grandparents, who lived close, did nothing except take the children to get them baptised. Yes, they left four children alone in a house under the supervision of a 9 year old girl, but at least they were baptised. :roll: Finally, protective services found them and put them up for adoption. My father was physically abused, emotionally abused, and raped repeatedly in foster care. Fifty years later, he is still suffering from these abuses. I'm not saying that it would have been better if he had been aborted, but I do get tired of hearing people say 'oh, they can just give the baby up for adoption' as if that somehow means that the baby is therefore going to have a wonderful and perfect life with wonderful and loving parents. Every child has the right to be a wanted child. I get very tired of these anti-choice people who care so much about this baby - right up to the moment it's born.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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06-18-2008, 09:26 PM | #9 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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06-18-2008, 10:19 PM | #10 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
Quote:
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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06-18-2008, 10:21 PM | #11 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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It was the last post in the other abortion thread before Tessar's closing post, so the discussion was moved here and people weren't likely to read it. I didn't want to have wasted the time writing it.
Glad you read it after I posted it there, though .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 06-18-2008 at 10:23 PM. |
06-18-2008, 10:40 PM | #12 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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You wasted your time, either way. I object to your reposting.
Unless I may repost freely, in which case, it's fine.
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
06-18-2008, 10:47 PM | #13 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ
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You can repost all you like. I don't see why you should object .
Last edited by Tessar : 06-18-2008 at 11:02 PM. |
06-18-2008, 11:22 PM | #14 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Are you talking about rape?
(oh, sorry - repost... )
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
06-19-2008, 12:12 AM | #15 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
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I <3 you so, so much. You know that, right?
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
06-19-2008, 12:22 AM | #16 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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I'm sure I've shared this story here before, but here it is again. My half-brother was adopted out because my mother was forced to give him up for adoption. He was sexually abused by his adoptive dad. He then became an abuser himself.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
06-19-2008, 12:37 AM | #17 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Look, everyone, does the possibility that someone in the future might be abused by adoptive parents, or might become a criminal, mean that they should be killed?
Lol!
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
06-19-2008, 12:41 AM | #18 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Women are entitled to the exclusive use of their own bodies, without parasitic growths being forced upon them.
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
06-19-2008, 01:55 AM | #19 |
Faithful Gardener
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: I walk here and there, they say...
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Hm.. I'm with Rian here. The whole "parasitic growths being forced upon them" thing sounds like you're referring to rape. As long as a woman is willing to have sex, the child isn't "forced". I am never going to have an abortion, even if I am raped and become pregnant from it. However, I can see that aborting a rape child (for lack of a better term) could be the only slightly plausible excuse for having an abortion.
Honestly, women may be entitled to the use of their bodies as they like, but it goes against the grain of the title "woman" to get rid of life that is growing inside of a pregnant belly (however far along). I firmly believe that women just nurture by nature. It severely hurts quite a lot of women psychologically (and sometimes physically) to have an abortion. I don't want to seem horrible, but just because there are foster parents who abuse the children with whom they are entrusted doesn't mean that everyone does. I can think of at least four families off the top of my head to whom I am close that have foster children and love them like their own children. Everything that happens in life is a gamble. One never knows how events will turn. I didn't mean to pick on you alone, Sis. Your post was the only one I could see as I was typing. *light bulb!* *goes and thanks mother for not aborting her, though she wasn't planned and mother still had a year of school left*
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In God I trust, I will not be afraid. What can man do to me? Psalm 56:11 "Starbuck, what do you hear?" "Nothin' but the rain, sir!" "Then grab your gun and bring in the cat." Make sure to check out the C.S. Lewis forum. Game threads, movie and book discussions and more! Last edited by Midge : 06-19-2008 at 02:09 AM. |
06-19-2008, 04:31 AM | #20 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
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Quote:
Quote:
My point being that, judging by their behaviour, most of the anti-choice lobby doesn't really believe that an unborn child and a born child are the same thing, in spite of what they say. Either that or they think genocide is a bad thing, to be protested on internet forums, as opposed to setting fire to Parliament. I've had 3 children and 3 miscarraiges. OK, not personally, but you know what I mean. I've witnessed 3 people emerging into the world and taking their first breath. I've had "high risk" test results from various pre-natal tests, the sort of test that might make you consider abortion, so I've explored a lot of these issues in a very real way. Throughout I have examined my views on abortion and they haven't changed materially. The only thing that's different is that I now believe much more strongly that there is a massive difference between born and unborn. However, I still think we should be cautious, and that's why I favour 22 weeks as the legal limit. |
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