What makes a book?

Ma Uai: Ua Nemti · 12-10-2002, 11:31 PM

What is it about the great books that makes them so... well... great? What do you folks think?

Miranda · 12-11-2002, 08:43 AM

I don't think there are any guidelines for what makes a great book (everyone differs in opinion over what is great so there's no pattern) but for me a great book is something you're drawn into (fiction or non fiction) and that you loath to put down, even right at the end. Mx

Shadowfax · 12-11-2002, 08:24 PM

I think it differs for each person what they think is a great book. For example, we had to read1984 last year and I hated it but there were many who loved it; they have different tastes than I do. For me a great book has 1) an excellent storyline with deeper meanings, lots of symbols, metaphors, etc. 2) interesting and diverse characters, some with a lot of depth to them, and some who don't. 3) and it MUST be written well. Actually, it would be kind of difficult for a story to possess 1 & 2 without being written well. Anyway, it must be full of literary devices, enriched vocabualry, and interesting plot twists.
I love good books, and let me say that JRR Tolkien's are amazing and they definitely measure up to my aforementioned standards.

Varda Oiolosseo · 12-13-2002, 06:52 PM

It depends on what type of book you read!
For some you need a good imagination!

***azalea*** · 12-13-2002, 10:44 PM

To me, a good book is interestingly written, has good characterization, and has a plot that interests me.

Elf.Freak · 12-16-2002, 12:00 PM

i like books that 'transport' you into another world (I've done that tons of times with LOTR, Mortal Engines and THe Edge Cronicles), books that are well written and books that aren't romance!

(i hate romance, regardless of what other people say).

johnnyrod · 12-18-2002, 05:37 PM

Good writing goes a long way, but a strong plot is the most important to me, with believable characters. Too many books (and fantasy/SF are the worst offenders) rely on their setting to carry something. A thriller, say, is all well and good but you've got to be able to believe that the people in it are genuinely bemused, scared, whatever.

Hanza · 01-03-2003, 09:41 AM

I like books that are completely different. And original. Ones that dont remind me of other books. That have characters with great personalities. I also like lots of description, so i can put myself there.

Ma Uai: Ua Nemti · 01-03-2003, 05:50 PM

Time for my opinion. I think that a book is good when you loathe having to put it down. It can have shallow characters, loosy plot, or even poor grammer, but if it can captivate my interest, its good reading.

Elfhelm · 01-03-2003, 08:11 PM

Greatness is an attribute ascribed by other people, not imbued by the artist. So a book is great when enough people say it is great. A book that may have been called great a hundred years ago might now be forgotten. Nobody much cares about The Lady of the Camillias, except that it was the first version of what is now Moulin Rouge. And a book may have flopped during an author's lifetiime but be called great by academics a hundred years later, like Moby Dick. That's my philological answer.

But what makes me call a book great? Isn't that what you're asking?

I call something great if it goes beyond itself. For instance, Moby Dick (again) is more than a sea story. And Stranger in a Strange Land trancends the limits of the science fiction genre, too. Camus' Stranger strikes a chord in most people, too. Other times I call something great when it seems to embody a lost time or past culture that I got to experience secondhand. And other times I respond that way when it passes on what I call "wisdom".

My wife says she responds to "general particulars". (Every time I ask if she means "general specifics" she explains her word choice again and since I can't reproduce that, I am destined to repeat the question.) But by that she seems to mean that the specific things in the life of the character touch us, not by what they are, but by some general sympathy we have. Maybe someday she will join the moot and post a better answer.

Duddun · 01-05-2003, 09:24 PM

I like having charactors that are mysterious. I've been reading a lot of books that I have heard were great and I didn't like because I am trying to write a book that people like. Now I know that I just need to use my own style and people will like it.

cee2lee2 · 01-06-2003, 12:32 AM

I consider a book great when it has characters that I care about and a plot that keeps me reading long past my bedtime. And when the book is done I wish there was more of it to read. So it also has to be a book I enjoy rereading more than once. And like Elf.Freak, the book has to "transport" me to its world.

Starr Polish · 01-06-2003, 01:15 AM

What makes a book? Paper and words.

What makes a great book? Words that swirl off of the page and into the terrifyng depths of my mind, crowding out the brightly colored swirls that are the stresses of the day. It takes me from my state of mind and puts me in a state of BEING. I have to live the story while I'm reading it to really love the book.

Coney · 01-06-2003, 02:30 AM

What makes a book?

Escapism, empathy and a little curiousity

What makes a great book?

All of the above mixed with emotion

Grey_Wolf · 01-07-2003, 04:06 PM

A great book in my opinion is a book you want to read and re-read over and over again like, for example,The Lord of the Rings which I've read 20 times (Once every year since the first time, when I was 13 years old).

Evenstar1400 · 02-03-2003, 10:19 PM

to me a good book has good characters, plenty of adventure, and something that relates to my life

Millane · 02-18-2003, 08:12 AM

i learnt in lit that the main things in books were Sex and Death...
what i preferably like is a drunk irish/scotsman and plenty of violence

***IronParrot*** · 02-26-2003, 01:48 AM

I think regardless of the intent of the author, the stature of a literary work is determined by how deeply the reader can read into it. I'm sure Shakespeare didn't intentionally weave every single little clever thing we accuse him of having done. In fact, Tolkien's an even better example - he didn't intend an allegorical tale, yet his thematic bases were so universal that we can apply The Lord of the Rings to almost anything.

I do maintain, however, there is a certain line to be drawn where you stop and say, "this is trash." It's not that I'm a highbrow elitist card-carrying literati, but at some point you do have to admit that there's a lot of bad writing out there as well.

Still, individual components don't necessarily make a book a masterpiece. You can't judge literature by criteria. It has to be a holistic appraisal of overall quality and appeal.

Some key questions:

- Can I put it down?
- Does it make me think?
- Did it expose me to new ideas?
- Overall, am I glad my lifespan encompassed the hours it took me to get through the thing?

Amandil · 02-28-2003, 04:22 AM

Paper. Paper makes a book.

Oh, you mean what makes a book great? Gee, I dunno...

Coney · 02-28-2003, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Millane
i learnt in lit that the main things in books were Sex and Death...
what i preferably like is a drunk irish/scotsman and plenty of violence

Patience Millane. I'm writing out my memoirs even as we speak!

12-10-2002, 11:31 PM	#1
Ma Uai: Ua Nemti Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: We'd tell you but you're all out to get us. Posts: 215	What makes a book? What is it about the great books that makes them so... well... great? What do you folks think? __________________ Pharoah "Vires decusque."

12-11-2002, 08:43 AM	#2
Miranda 'Bohemian princess of Covent Garden Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Mill Posts: 544	I don't think there are any guidelines for what makes a great book (everyone differs in opinion over what is great so there's no pattern) but for me a great book is something you're drawn into (fiction or non fiction) and that you loath to put down, even right at the end. Mx __________________ There's only us, there's only this, forget regret or life is yours to miss. No other road, no other way, no day but today.

12-11-2002, 08:24 PM	#3
Shadowfax The Fleet-Footed Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: British Columbia Posts: 913	I think it differs for each person what they think is a great book. For example, we had to read1984 last year and I hated it but there were many who loved it; they have different tastes than I do. For me a great book has 1) an excellent storyline with deeper meanings, lots of symbols, metaphors, etc. 2) interesting and diverse characters, some with a lot of depth to them, and some who don't. 3) and it MUST be written well. Actually, it would be kind of difficult for a story to possess 1 & 2 without being written well. Anyway, it must be full of literary devices, enriched vocabualry, and interesting plot twists. I love good books, and let me say that JRR Tolkien's are amazing and they definitely measure up to my aforementioned standards. __________________ Jesus saved me "To remain ignorant of things that happened before you were born is to remain a child" (Cicero, 106-43 B.C.) "Art is a lie which makes us realize the truth" (Picasso)

12-16-2002, 12:00 PM	#6
Elf.Freak Orli's lil fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sugar World/Orlando Bloom Cloud Posts: 464	i like books that 'transport' you into another world (I've done that tons of times with LOTR, Mortal Engines and THe Edge Cronicles), books that are well written and books that aren't romance! (i hate romance, regardless of what other people say). __________________ >>--elven arrow--> ~ Give a man a fish and he'll feed for a day, give me a fish and you'll only get it back! ~ I've gotta new avatar! looks kinda like me...anime style! ~ LOST: Orlando Bloom. If found, please send him straight to Elf.Freak

12-18-2002, 05:37 PM	#7
johnnyrod Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Scunthorpe, UK Posts: 166	Good writing goes a long way, but a strong plot is the most important to me, with believable characters. Too many books (and fantasy/SF are the worst offenders) rely on their setting to carry something. A thriller, say, is all well and good but you've got to be able to believe that the people in it are genuinely bemused, scared, whatever. __________________ Frodo Lives!

12-13-2002, 06:52 PM	#4
Varda Oiolosseo Tea Bag Queen Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 973	It depends on what type of book you read! For some you need a good imagination!

12-13-2002, 10:44 PM	#5
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	To me, a good book is interestingly written, has good characterization, and has a plot that interests me.

01-03-2003, 09:41 AM	#8
Hanza Woolly Jumper Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: In my field of paper flowers and candy clouds of lullaby Posts: 1,200	I like books that are completely different. And original. Ones that dont remind me of other books. That have characters with great personalities. I also like lots of description, so i can put myself there. __________________ :: there's nothing comforting in change:: Why dont sheep shrink in the rain??

01-03-2003, 05:50 PM	#9
Ma Uai: Ua Nemti Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: We'd tell you but you're all out to get us. Posts: 215	Time for my opinion. I think that a book is good when you loathe having to put it down. It can have shallow characters, loosy plot, or even poor grammer, but if it can captivate my interest, its good reading. __________________ Pharoah "Vires decusque."

01-03-2003, 08:11 PM	#10
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Greatness is an attribute ascribed by other people, not imbued by the artist. So a book is great when enough people say it is great. A book that may have been called great a hundred years ago might now be forgotten. Nobody much cares about The Lady of the Camillias, except that it was the first version of what is now Moulin Rouge. And a book may have flopped during an author's lifetiime but be called great by academics a hundred years later, like Moby Dick. That's my philological answer. But what makes me call a book great? Isn't that what you're asking? I call something great if it goes beyond itself. For instance, Moby Dick (again) is more than a sea story. And Stranger in a Strange Land trancends the limits of the science fiction genre, too. Camus' Stranger strikes a chord in most people, too. Other times I call something great when it seems to embody a lost time or past culture that I got to experience secondhand. And other times I respond that way when it passes on what I call "wisdom". My wife says she responds to "general particulars". (Every time I ask if she means "general specifics" she explains her word choice again and since I can't reproduce that, I am destined to repeat the question.) But by that she seems to mean that the specific things in the life of the character touch us, not by what they are, but by some general sympathy we have. Maybe someday she will join the moot and post a better answer. __________________ cya

01-05-2003, 09:24 PM	#11
Duddun I Antha Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: You expect ME to know? Posts: 784	I like having charactors that are mysterious. I've been reading a lot of books that I have heard were great and I didn't like because I am trying to write a book that people like. Now I know that I just need to use my own style and people will like it. __________________ If you say my name I go "What?" If you say my name twice I go and look it up in the dictionary. **************************** I'm Not Evil! ************************** If the critics say it's good, is it really That good? ************************** It's a bird! It's a plane! No! It's a balloon! **************************** Duddun, Son of Bubbun

01-06-2003, 12:32 AM	#12
cee2lee2 Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: 2nd star to the left..... Posts: 566	I consider a book great when it has characters that I care about and a plot that keeps me reading long past my bedtime. And when the book is done I wish there was more of it to read. So it also has to be a book I enjoy rereading more than once. And like Elf.Freak, the book has to "transport" me to its world.

01-06-2003, 01:15 AM	#13
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	What makes a book? Paper and words. What makes a great book? Words that swirl off of the page and into the terrifyng depths of my mind, crowding out the brightly colored swirls that are the stresses of the day. It takes me from my state of mind and puts me in a state of BEING. I have to live the story while I'm reading it to really love the book. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

01-06-2003, 02:30 AM	#14
Coney The Buddy Rabbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Trapped in the headlights.. Posts: 3,372	What makes a book? Escapism, empathy and a little curiousity What makes a great book? All of the above mixed with emotion __________________ Blessed are the cracked, they let the light in Beatallica

01-07-2003, 04:06 PM	#15
Grey_Wolf Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mirkwood, well actually I live in North-west Scania, Sweden Posts: 9,481	A great book in my opinion is a book you want to read and re-read over and over again like, for example,The Lord of the Rings which I've read 20 times (Once every year since the first time, when I was 13 years old).

02-03-2003, 10:19 PM	#16
Evenstar1400 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the inner depths of my lair. Posts: 421	to me a good book has good characters, plenty of adventure, and something that relates to my life __________________ Treebeard: Hmm, you look like hobbits, smell like hobbits, feel like hobbits and sound like hobbits. You must be orcs!

02-18-2003, 08:12 AM	#17
Millane The Dude Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: at the altar of my ego Posts: 1,685	i learnt in lit that the main things in books were Sex and Death... what i preferably like is a drunk irish/scotsman and plenty of violence __________________ Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free,

02-26-2003, 01:48 AM	#18
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	I think regardless of the intent of the author, the stature of a literary work is determined by how deeply the reader can read into it. I'm sure Shakespeare didn't intentionally weave every single little clever thing we accuse him of having done. In fact, Tolkien's an even better example - he didn't intend an allegorical tale, yet his thematic bases were so universal that we can apply The Lord of the Rings to almost anything. I do maintain, however, there is a certain line to be drawn where you stop and say, "this is trash." It's not that I'm a highbrow elitist card-carrying literati, but at some point you do have to admit that there's a lot of bad writing out there as well. Still, individual components don't necessarily make a book a masterpiece. You can't judge literature by criteria. It has to be a holistic appraisal of overall quality and appeal. Some key questions: - Can I put it down? - Does it make me think? - Did it expose me to new ideas? - Overall, am I glad my lifespan encompassed the hours it took me to get through the thing? __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

02-28-2003, 04:22 AM	#19
Amandil Guy-who-should-come-here-more-often Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Alberta, in spirit -- Vlaanderen, in body (Canada? Never heard of it!) Posts: 120	Paper. Paper makes a book. Oh, you mean what makes a book great? Gee, I dunno... __________________ Amandil Mithadan "Why would you want to tamper with anything Tolkien did?" --Ralph Bashki "Seeking self, I find nothing but myself, but in this I drink the cup of gall I really am. I want everything, and I may have everything, but I have nothing except what I have. What I have I know is not what will fulfill me, and I know this in the bitterness of satisfied desire. Everything I have is still not enough, and in getting everything I have, I have not myself, indeed what I have may have twisted what I am and might be into an image of my own possessions. I will to possess, but I end up possessed by what I possess." -- William Desmond (Ethics and the Between, p. 209-210)

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