08-19-2006, 07:38 PM | #1 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: hutchinson ks
Posts: 34
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orcs used to be elfs WOW
i firmly believe that even though the book says they are elfs tortured beyond normal lines that they would betray there own race thay by all rights should still be good but as j.r.r tolkien based the book on the vietnam war well i think that they were the vietnamise but as i said before on the outlook of the book the elfs would even after being tortured never serve sauron not even if they were bribed profoundly so as i said they cannot be tortured elfs in my opinion but tortured men as we as men have many faults as of course we would turn against our country in the case of supreme torturing
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08-19-2006, 09:18 PM | #2 |
Dreamweaver
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go...
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er....
1. elves. 2. why is this in the hobbit?
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08-20-2006, 03:46 AM | #3 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 421
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The origin of orcs changed over time; some maiar became orcs (cf Myths Transformed, HoME X) and some men too. But orcs appeared long before the coming of Men, so some elves must have been turned into orcs also. I am pretty sure there is some lengthy thread about this around the site.
Concerning their meta-origin, Tolkien confesses about borrowing it: Quote:
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08-20-2006, 05:34 AM | #4 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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Moved to silmarillion forum.
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We are not things. |
08-21-2006, 04:21 AM | #5 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
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Also, Tolkien had nothing to do with the Vietnam war. He fought in World War I, losing several close friends in the process.
I don't think there's any evidence that orcs are modelled on any particular enemy from any particular war. |
08-21-2006, 07:24 AM | #6 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 301
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Quote:
LoTR first published 1954-1955 First Americans killed in Vietnam- 1959 (military advisors) US Special Forces Deployed as instructors-1960 First US combat forces -1965 |
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08-21-2006, 09:29 AM | #7 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
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Lessons learned: 1975
Subsequently forgotten: 2003 |
08-21-2006, 10:22 PM | #8 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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Quote:
Fornost of Arthedain fell to the Witch-King in 1974 Minas Ithil fell to the Witch-King in 2002 double
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08-22-2006, 03:43 AM | #9 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
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Quote:
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08-22-2006, 07:40 PM | #10 | |
avocatus diaboli
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Nice, Val.
Quote:
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08-22-2006, 08:34 PM | #11 |
Honourary Elitist Inklette
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: between the mountains and the sea
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Elves are in no way perfect. Heck, if the Maiar aren't perfect, how can you expect those who are born to be completely without fault?
It makes those who were valiant even more so when their comrades can and have fallen. If they were incapable of evil, then their goodness would serve no purpose and would become meaningless. |
08-22-2006, 09:11 PM | #12 |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
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orcs from elves? orcs from men? orcs from maiar? does it really matter? all that matters is that they are great!
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08-22-2006, 09:55 PM | #13 | |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
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Quote:
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
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08-23-2006, 04:33 AM | #14 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
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No, you've got it wrong. It's "kinslayings".
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09-06-2006, 05:43 PM | #15 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 32
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it is true elves were captured by morgoths servants and taken back to angband...a little bit of this and a little bit of that and you got yourself an army of orcs
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09-06-2006, 05:47 PM | #16 |
Elf Lord
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Location: here and there
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... you do the okey-cokey,
.. and shake it... all about ... |
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