How Faramir got Slighted (Movie-Book Comparison)

[Rosie Gamgee]

Hey, people. I was thinking a few weeks ago about the character of Faramir, and how I really don't like him the the movies, but absolutely love him in the books. I was thinking about the differences in characters- Faramir of Tolkien and Faramir of Jackson- and a few things occured to me.
I find it interesting how, in order to promote the power of the Ring, Jackson did not allow Faramir's virtue and integrity to come out- he lowers Faramir to actually making an attempt to take the Ring, going so far as to have Faramir drag to hobbits within sight of Minas Tirith... which is ludicrous to me, but I'm getting off-topic.
Another thing: Faramir of Jackson (I like that term ) seems rather shallow. His character is devoid of... backround- for lack of a better word. He lacks depth, and comes off as just a shell, more of 'Boromir's brother' or 'Denethor's son', than his own person. I was trying to come up with the reason for this, what caused it, and it occured to me that Faramir's character was picked at to provide material for Boromir, and perhaps even for Aragorn. His love for his City (it's in TTT- book, btw- when Faramir is speaking with Frodo and Sam at Henneth Annun [spl?]. He has this whole little speech on how he loves the City of Gondor), that is given to Boromir, who makes his own really beautiful speech in Lothlorien in the movies about Minas Tirith. Faramir's humility (and I'm not talking about that oh-so-lowly-little-brother thing in the TTT:EE- but his real selflessness and, as Denethor put it, gentleness and graciousness) seems to be handed down to Aragorn, who, in the books, was very sure of himself and his course.

Okay, spoke my piece for now (got to save some humdingers for later- once I think them up ). Discuss. ...?

[Valandil]

It will be interesting to see how smooth or believable the Faramir-Eowyn love interest is in the EE. I'll somewhat reserve judgement until then.

*sigh* I agree that Faramir is not depicted at all like he is in the books... but otoh, there are some realities in translations from book to film - and unfortunately, 'simplification' seems to be one of them.

[mithrand1r]

Originally Posted by Valandil

*sigh* I agree that Faramir is not depicted at all like he is in the books... but otoh, there are some realities in translations from book to film - and unfortunately, 'simplification' seems to be one of them.

Simplification is one thing (ie stream·lin·ing the events from the shire to bree)

Changing a characters persona is another. (Removing much of Faramir's "nobleness")

[Rosie Gamgee]

Yes. That's what I hate the most about book-to-movie adaptions. I don't mind simplification or even omission so much as I detest addition and perversion.

[Durin1]

I agree, it is the over - simplification of the characters which is sometimes hard to swallow, although many people believe that you always have to simplify in order to get your message across to the wider audience (as PJ so patronisingly does with the use of Faramir). Inevitably, you will land yourself in trouble if you don't recognise some of the implications of making such a decision, as PJ should know!!

[ethuiliel]

I agree that I like the movie Faramir much less than the book Faramir, but you can still tell that he's the same character. I mean, he is changed, but not beyond recognition, and in the extended edition and in RotK he becomes more like himself. Not to say that I don't wish that he was still as he was in the books, but it could be much worse.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Yeah in TTT he was more like Denethors son than he was like Faramir.

[Nurvingiel]

Is Faramir really not changed beyond recognition? Aside from a few cosmetic things - name etc. he really doesn't have that much in common with the noble, far-sighted Faramir of the book.

Movie-Faramir is rude, brash, and one-dimensional, and this change is made even worse by the fact that they could have pulled off the 'real' Faramir in the movie, and have had him resist the Ring, etc. Just because people haven't read the book doesn't mean they're stupid and have to be hit over the head with a plot as obvious as a brick.

[Durin1]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Is Faramir really not changed beyond recognition? Aside from a few cosmetic things - name etc. he really doesn't have that much in common with the noble, far-sighted Faramir of the book.

Movie-Faramir is rude, brash, and one-dimensional, and this change is made even worse by the fact that they could have pulled off the 'real' Faramir in the movie, and have had him resist the Ring, etc. Just because people haven't read the book doesn't mean they're stupid and have to be hit over the head with a plot as obvious as a brick.

Exactly!!

[ethuiliel]

Lets see, similarities (not in any particular order):
name
human
*hated by Denethor
*pretty good relationship with Boromir
*went on suicide mission to Osgiliath to please his father
**didn't take ring
**let Frodo and Sam go
nearly got burned up by Denethor's madness

Differences:
hair color
*seriously considered taking the ring
*more interested in pleasing Denethor
*took the hobbits to Osgiliath
*was kinda rough with gollum in the EE
his manner of return... both times

any others?
I'll agree that he changed, and that the book version was much better, and that I wish they didn't change him, but I think you're being a little harsh.

[Nurvingiel]

I agree with all your similarities and differences Ethuiliel. Do the *s or lack thereof indicate strength of similarity or anything?

However, I maintain that the similarities with Faramir from book to movie are cosmetic.

The fundamental core of his character is non-existant in the movie.

Bilbo and Faramir are two extremely unique characters. Bilbo is the only person to willingly give up the Ring. Faramir is the only (non-Fellowhip) person who knew what the Ring was, and was presented with the opportunity to take it without immediate consequence, and yet, did not.

The Fellowship were the only other people who knew what the Ring was and could have conceivably taken it. But they swore an oath to Elrond that they wouldn't take it, and had time to steel their minds against its evil (which is constantly working on all who are near it). Boromir succumbed, partly, I think, because of the pressures of his situation, and partly because Men are the most vulnerable to its evil.

Now, Faramir was surprised by the presence of the Ring, he was surrounded by loyal men, and Sam and Frodo were defenceless. He had more of an opportunity to sieze the Ring for his own than any of the Fellowship were ever presented with, and yet, he didn't even attempt to take the Ring. Maybe he had been giving the Ring thought, ever since he had had the dreams the he and Boromir shared, but he still never really knew what the Ring was. After thinking about it for only a short period of time, he says he will not take the Ring, and then does everything he can to help Frodo and Sam on their Quest. This is the essence of Faramir's character in my opinion.

Not only is this aspect of his character completely and totally absent in the movie, there is also nothing particularly unique about his character. This is more Peter Jackson's fault than David Wenham's, who certainly does his bit by being spiffy and good-looking.

In my not very humble opinion, that's how Faramir got burned (not just slighted) in the movie.



EDIT: About hair-colour, do we know what Faramir looks like in the book? Tolkien is sometimes vague about character's appearances, but I always pictured Faramir as dark-haired. (Nearly shoulder-length, dark brown hair, and very handsome... *clubs inner fangirl to death* Whew, the moment has passed... )

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

EDIT: About hair-colour, do we know what Faramir looks like in the book? Tolkien is sometimes vague about character's appearances, but I always pictured Faramir as dark-haired. (Nearly shoulder-length, dark brown hair, and very handsome... *clubs inner fangirl to death* Whew, the moment has passed... )

From the comment about the hair when he's standing with Éowyn on the walls of Minas Tirith, I always assumed he was dark-haired. Which leads me to one my problems (granted, terribly superficial but I never said I was deep did I? ) with the movie: with all the wigged people running around in it, surely they could have given him the proper hair colour?!

Yes, moment passed now.

[Vadskye]

Originally Posted by ethuiliel

I'll agree that he changed, and that the book version was much better, and that I wish they didn't change him, but I think you're being a little harsh.

Yeah, that's kinda my opinion too. I mean, the movie did lack something of Faramir's character, but it's not as bad as you claim it is.

(did I just basically rephrase everything ethuiliel said? :P)

[ethuiliel]

The *s were to mark the ones that I felt were important when discussing character traits. For example, neither hair color nor the name makes the character.

Talking about hair, Faramir definetly has dark hair.

and their hair, raven and golden, streamed out mingling in the air.

We know the only people in this scene are Eowyn and Faramir, and we know that Eowyn's blond, so that leaves Faramir to be the raven-haired one.

I honestly did not come to this thread expecting to defend the movie's portrayal of Faramir... I hated it too. I completely agree that Faramir should not have been at all tempted by the ring, and that that was what made him the character he was in the book... the fact that he wasn't tempted. I mean, I was furious for a while, and I still think Faramir was changed very drastically, but...

[Fion]

Well I think that the character was changed, yes. And Faramir was one of my fav characters as well, probably my favorite (sorry Aragorn). I think a lot of you people have a point. I think that Nurvingiel had a very strong agrument, and I agree with Nurvingiel on the point that PJ didn't create the Faramir we know. But I would also like to give some credit to PJ. He may not have done a perfect job putting the books on screen(though I would like to ask who could?), but you have have to admit he still made amazing films. I've grown up watching movies in a family that takes film very seriously, and I have also learned to take it seriously and to critigue it. And I have to say that the Lord of the Rings films are probably among my favorite films ever, not because they're based on books I love, but because they really are great movies.

Also, I would like to say that we have yet to see the Return of the King EE, there is going to be much more Faramir footage in it and I think it will bring the Faramir we know and love a little more fully to the screen.

[Rían]

I think the reason why Faramir's hair was brown was because movie Aragorn's hair was black, and so Boromir's had to be brown, and Faramir was Boromir's brother. All those characters - people would have been confusing Boromir and Aragorn if they both had brown hair.

[Nurvingiel]

Well I think the movies were great too, even if they were bad adaptations. Probably no one could have made a really good adaptation, but if you do a poor job, in some respects, you will be subject to criticism.

I think Faramir's character was unrecognisable, and worst, I think Peter Jackson had the skills as a director to portray him properly. He had assembled a great cast, and given the really good scenes in the movie, it's not like he didn't know how to make movies. So why distort Faramir beyond all recognition?

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Fion

Also, I would like to say that we have yet to see the Return of the King EE, there is going to be much more Faramir footage in it and I think it will bring the Faramir we know and love a little more fully to the screen.

Indeed, however to bring more of the Faramir we know to the screen, the movie character will have to do a U-turn from what we saw now in TTT. But I'll reserve my final judgement until I have seen the extended edition.

While I practically adore the film setting-, accesory- and prop-wise and am impressed by the giant undertaking to bring this tale to the screen, I lament the additions and changes that I deem unnecesary to the story, even in translating the written account to a visual one. Faramir's character rewrittal is one of those changes.

[ethuiliel]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I think Faramir's character was unrecognisable, and worst, I think Peter Jackson had the skills as a director to portray him properly. He had assembled a great cast, and given the really good scenes in the movie, it's not like he didn't know how to make movies. So why distort Faramir beyond all recognition?

I agree. I think they could have left Faramir as he was in the book, and they could have gotten it to work. But, what's done is done, they can't undo what they did to Faramir in the TTT, they can only add new and better scenes to make him better. In the EE (except for the part with Gollum at the end) they did make him better than in the TE, and in RotK he was even better... he'll never be what we want, but can't we try to forget what he's supposed to be, and just enjoy the movie for what it is. PJ can't please everybody, and for some reason he thought this would work better. We don't have to agree with him, but you have to admit that the movies, if you forget that they were based off the books (supposing that's possible) were really impressive.

[Nurvingiel]

Yes they are impressive, beautiful scenery, sets, props, and costumes, Sam, other cool characters...

But the pointless changes really bug me, maybe because the film was so good in several ways. If it was mostly crap maybe I would have said "it's rubbish" in 2001 and never bothered thinking about it again. But it wasn't so those reasonably numerous changes from the book (the ones that detract from the story in my opinion) are still worth complaining about. At least I think so... Faramir is one of my favourite characters in the book, and I get very attached to great characters. Maybe that's why I'm quite vehement about him getting burned.

But I certainly respect those with a less... obsessive/ardent/slightly mad opinion.

EDIT: And by mad I mean crazy.