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#1 | |
High King of Númenórë
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Númenórë <--United States of America
Posts: 1,947
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Tolkien and little hints in his work...
I started reading Lord of the Rings again a couple nights ago, and I came across a passage that never really caught my eye much until the other night. I found it was pretty interesting and I think it held the views of Tolkien and the transformation into a more modern world, which we all know, he didn't like too much. I think it brings about a more personable side of his writings, through his own experiences. At the same time it speaks of how those that are sheltered, realize they aren't when something out of the ordinary happens, and they wish for things to be like they were. Whether it is living in the past and not bearing for the future or whatnot. It's little things like that, that I appreciate with every reading of these books. Funny thing is, I never really caught this passage before, and I've read it the books about 5 times, lol...
Check it out: Quote:
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen ![]() |
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#2 | |
Hobbit
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: In a small town in a small state in a...rather overlarge country
Posts: 38
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Things like that really blow my mind because you don't really notice the first or even tenth time you read over and ignore them.
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Sorry, I'm doing Lit studies and that's just my blurb for the day. But yeah, that passage, and others that sort of pop out in their greater/more specific significance, made me think.
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"We are the people our parents warned us about." --Jimmy Buffett |
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#3 | |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
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Quote:
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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#4 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,215
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Here are two somewhat contradictory, or at least not complimentary, views of the "appeasement" question above:
From Tom Shippey's "J.R.R. Tolkien", p.165: Quote:
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Democrat for Kerry-Edwards! Take Back America Aure entuluva! Last edited by Tuor of Gondolin : 01-07-2004 at 06:03 PM. |
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#5 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 1,125
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However, Tolkien loathed German anti-Semitism. He sent a cheeky reply to a German publisher that wanted to translate The Hobbit but wanted to know if he were Jewish, to the effect that he wasn't but wished he were.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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#6 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,215
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You're absolutey right about Tolkien's essentially "pro-Semitic" outlook. I didn't include one quote from "Letters" I especially like because I thought it might be off topic. I think it's the one Attalus is referring to. An excerpt:
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![]() Unfortunately, the wimpy publishers apparently sent a shorter version. And in a related letter to his publishers JRRT said: Quote:
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Democrat for Kerry-Edwards! Take Back America Aure entuluva! Last edited by Tuor of Gondolin : 01-06-2004 at 08:17 PM. |
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#7 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Lonely Mountain
Posts: 161
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Good discussion. I think it's interesting how Tolkien made such a stink about hating allegory when you see how much of his work seems to mirror the politics of the time.
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#8 |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
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Great quotes, thanks
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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#9 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Quote:
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#10 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 369
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Forkbeard |
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#11 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#12 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: somewhere in Ennorath
Posts: 21
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I think that many confuse "applicability" with "allegory; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other with the purposed domination of the author.
J.R.R. Tolkien, Forward to the Second Edition, The Lord of the Rings
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"It's wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope." -Elrond |
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#13 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA until I find a way to get to Middle Earth
Posts: 681
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Quote:
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"...but I love not the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend: the city of the Men of Numenor." "'I would,' said Faramir. And he took her in his arms and kissed her under the sunlit sky, and he cared not that they stood high upon the walls in the sight of many. And many indeed saw them and the light that shone about them as they came down from the walls and went hand in hand to the Houses of Healing." |
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#14 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Well said ethuiliel!
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#15 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: somewhere in Ennorath
Posts: 21
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Among my other vices, I'm a student of World War One and that it affected Tolkien profoundly would be an understatement. Many of the images in the book of places such as Mordor or the Dead Marshes are "inspired" (if that's the right term) by his memories of the horrors of the front lines.
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"It's wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope." -Elrond |
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#16 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 369
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ALl into the soup pot, as Tollers I think would probably reply. Forkbeard |
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#17 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: somewhere in Ennorath
Posts: 21
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Aye. And lovely pot of stew it is. (as Sam might have observed)
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"It's wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope." -Elrond |
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#18 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,215
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Originally posted by Arandir
Among my other vices, I'm a student of World War One and that it affected Tolkien profoundly would be an understatement. Many of the images in the book of places such as Mordor or the Dead Marshes are "inspired" (if that's the right term) by his memories of the horrors of the front lines. ______________________________ Then have you seen yet a book I've just purchased and begun browsing: Tolkien And The Great War: The Threshold of Middle-earth, by John Garth?
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Democrat for Kerry-Edwards! Take Back America Aure entuluva! |
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#19 | |
Hobbit
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: somewhere in Ennorath
Posts: 21
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Quote:
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"It's wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope." -Elrond Last edited by Arandir : 01-10-2004 at 04:32 PM. |
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