02-03-2005, 05:23 PM | #1 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Nah!! OK, here's my "nutty" summation (sorry it took so long, had some things come up in RL - the nerve!) (not that you've been waiting with bated breath or anything!) You said if you had to pick some type of label, "agnostic" would be the closest. However, it looks like you're living your day-to-day life basically as an atheist; would you agree? (IOW, you're not reading the Bible, praying, going to church, etc.) So I think practically speaking, you're living an atheistic life (altho open to the possibility of God existing). I see you're online, so I'll wait for a bit to see if you agree with this.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-03-2005, 05:39 PM | #2 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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the way i see it, a believer is sure there is a god... an atheist is sure there is not a god... the agnostic says, maybe yes, maybe no, maybe it's one of we've already defined or maybe its something completely different... maybe there's even more than one or maybe god isn't all that concerned about humans on earth at all and he sees other things in the universe as much more impressive creations but basically, yes... it doesn't effect me one way or another much day to day
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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02-03-2005, 05:46 PM | #3 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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02-03-2005, 05:52 PM | #4 |
Elf Lord
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nor to mention the active evangelisation of a - gnosis. For a person who claims not to be able of knowing, brownjenkins sure is positive in his assertion of a - gnosis.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
02-03-2005, 05:58 PM | #5 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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02-03-2005, 05:59 PM | #6 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-03-2005, 06:24 PM | #7 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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wow - how to sum up ...
I have two problems with your stated beliefs, brownie. One is in the realm of the head, and one in the realm of the heart. I don't see how you've explained them away, either. I think they still exist, and I'll try to point them out here, and see if you agree. If you agree, you'll either have to ignore them or adjust your worldview. 1. Head : I continue to have problems with your idea of change being an absolute. Besides the obvious logical flaw contained in that statement (i.e., if change is an absolute, then the very statement "change is an absolute" must be subject to change), you've still come up with what you think are absolutes - e.g., that we need to act for the good of society. I've mentioned various heinous acts, and am sad to see that you don't react with moral outrage (altho I suspect that you do inside, because you mentioned you'd prob. kill someone that hurt your kids), but at least you DO say that they're not right because they're not good for society. This, of course, implies that you think society is good for some reason. What is your reason? If we have come about thru completely natural processes without any intent on the part of a creator, what makes our existence good? If we just vanish when we die, why is it bad to kill someone for selfish gain? They won't know any different, and those that love them will end up vanishing, too, so their pain doesn't matter. You tried to remove even the idea that killing (for selfish gain) was wrong, but were only able to do this by saying that could only be the case if somehow scientists were able to do away with death. However, as Lizra's siggy says, let's "live in the real world!" Let's assume that death is final. And why is death bad, btw? If a person dies, then apparently you think they're just gone. So how is death bad? I'm going to quote some passages from R. C. Sproul: Quote:
(note that I'm talking about a LOGICAL deduction. I don't deny that people are moral! But that is easily explained by the Christian worldview ) Here's a second quote: Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-03-2005, 06:28 PM | #8 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Here's more :
Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-03-2005, 07:53 PM | #9 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
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Just because we're accidents does not mean we don't matter! (Assuming for the sake of this argument, that we are.)
Why would life not have value in and of itself, just because it happened by chance?
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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02-03-2005, 07:53 PM | #10 | |||
Domesticated Swing Babe
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As far as that quote...I think it's a bunch of hooey! I can have morals without instruction/permission from some "GOD". As I see it...in the real world...there obviously is NO god...and yet....we have morals! Take it for what it's worth. added...Those quotes are so much hot air! I'm too busy to bother with my interpretation right now (and you probably aren't interested...sorry! ) People do what is in their own best interest and we have come about our so called "morals" in a very long drawn-out, complicated, round-about way, over eons of time. Making up god stories is helpful for this...but it's not neccessary....IMO.
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 02-03-2005 at 08:30 PM. |
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02-03-2005, 08:18 PM | #11 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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I would like to join this discussion if I had more time to use computers...maybe I'll write it out back home and bring it with me next-time. It'll be a slow session with me though...probably will have to wait ages before I reply.
Nurv and Rian (and anyone else willing to), I'd like you both to read a book called "Socrates meets Jesus" by Peter Kreeft. In it, Socrates doesnt actually meet Christ, its more of a journey with logic through the various views of christianity (and others, though not to such an extent.) For instance, Socrates will discuss with people like Berth Broadmind who believe that Jesus died only "spiritually" at the cross etc...you may end up thinking this book is one-sided, I cant prevent that. But I got alot out of it.
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ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide Last edited by hectorberlioz : 02-03-2005 at 08:28 PM. |
02-03-2005, 08:23 PM | #12 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
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02-03-2005, 08:26 PM | #13 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Hello Hector! How are you...you sweet young thing! (smooch!) We really DO need that kissy face smiley!!
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
02-03-2005, 08:31 PM | #14 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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I know you guys missed me...but actually I've been around a bit recently: at the Classical Music thread and BTW, Lizra , I sent you a pm which you never replied to.
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02-03-2005, 08:36 PM | #15 | |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
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02-03-2005, 08:39 PM | #16 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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Why is self preservation so natural, so...human, so instinctive?
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02-03-2005, 08:44 PM | #17 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Why is the sky blue, why is water wet, why does life live? Well, ...why not?
I know some of you like all answers to end in god...so suit yourself.
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
02-03-2005, 08:48 PM | #18 | |
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 02-03-2005 at 08:52 PM. |
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02-03-2005, 08:56 PM | #19 | |
The Intermittent One
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"Why is the sky bronze?" |
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02-03-2005, 09:01 PM | #20 |
Elf Lord
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Lizra,
In addition to all the charms you admit of HB, I must note that he is a very well-read, intelligent individual. I can tell that because he has read and recommended SOCRATES MEETS JESUS by Peter Kreeft (like yours truly has done though not on this thread nor to you, since you regard some of my recommendations as "sappy" without perusing them, but then I forget that you also don't want an artist's opinion either and so I console myself that perhaps HB's recommendation will get looked at for all the qualities you attribute to him) ! Way to go, HB!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |