Don Imus, what do you think?

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

For those who don't know, well-known radio personality Don Imus was just suspended for making racist remarks on the air, about college basketball players.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/07/ar...in&oref=slogin

What do you think? hould he have apologized sooner? Should his employers have brought him to task sooner? Does he need help? Should he lose his show? How does this compare with the reaction when Isaiah Washington made his anti-gay remark?

TIME LINE

OCTOBER 9: Washington and co-star Patrick Dempsey have an on-set scuffle after Washington calls cast member T.R. Knight a "faggot".

OCTOBER 19: Knight comes out as gay.

OCTOBER 25: Washington publicly apologises for using the slur.

JANUARY 15: Grey's Anatomy wins best TV drama at the Golden Globes, where Washington denies calling Knight a "faggot''. Heigl slams Washington.

JANUARY 17: Knight appears on TV, saying the October incident was extremely upsetting and forced him out of the closet. The Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation calls for Washington to make a public apology.

JANUARY 19: Washington apologises for his comments at the Golden Globes and announces he will seek anger-management treatment.

JANUARY 28: Washington misses Screen Actors Guild awards, where the cast win best ensemble in a drama. Co-star Chandra Wilson refers to Washington as "the one in rehab''.

FEBRUARY 1: Washington returns to the set to resume filming.

[Lotesse]

Wow, yeah I was listening to this on my indie radio station briefly this morning, the bit where he called the Rutgers women's basketballers "nappy-haired ho's", then again the guy made news I heard this evening, on NPR, and all I can say is two things:

A. Here is a truly disgusting human being, a shining example of so much that is wrong with the world, a truly foul and ridiculous scumbag piece of trash, and...

B. It is a free country in which we live, like it or not these pieces of trash have absolutely the freedom of speech to say whatever disgusting nonsense comes into their puny, shriveled, hateful little brains.

I'd say more like: Shame upon and a big ol' middle finger to the network that cuts his paycheck and shame on and a fistful of middle fingers to the idiotic fanbase that kept his ratings up, for this crapola, but the bottom line, everyone, is that he's got the right, the first amendment united states right, as a u.s. citizen, to say whatever horrible nonsense pops into his useless fat head. And, also, the public's got a right and the full ability to recognise he's full of hateful, narrow-minded shaite and change the dial on their radio, and the big-daddy network's got the right to decide whether or not they want to be giving such hatred such a huge audience & paycheck in the first damn place.

There's a lot of horrible nonsense on the airwaves all over the place, from Jerry Springer and Rush Limbaugh to all kinds of people and stupid shows and crapola, and it's gross but the bottom line is they've all got that wonderful right to say whatever they want to. And we must, as a citizenry, make sure that this right stays put; it's becoming more and more eroded as time inches by, especially since 9/11. If we're not vigilant & aware, before we know it we won't be able to talk about anjfhdksjha jedia hjiohjwed hcjh. Duwi cfc. AACK!!! Did you see that?? See?? They're suppressing our voice! They'rnfjh xsjakd sjjn!!!

Mphhkiskf. Mff. MMFth!!

First Amendment rights. Freedom of speech. Don't let them slip away, and if people like that Imus cat bother you all, then please, by all means, write to the station who hired him and let 'em have it, and boycott people like that when they're on the airwaves or on TV. But don't force them to be silent, or the domino effect starts.

Frank Zappa had a lot to say about this issue, of the jeopardy of freedom of speech, I have a you-tube interview of him from the early eighties with this group of super-conservatives who were hoping to suppress his music for "questionable" lyrics, it is such an awesome interview - when I find it, if you guys are interested I'll post the link here for you to watch. It's a safe link, don't worry! It's somewhere in thsi computer, gotta dig it out, but Zappa'll blow your mind in this interview. Total genius.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

5 legally recognised criteria (which also apply to 'symbolic speech' like art).

Those are:
1.Clear and Present danger 1919
2.Fighting words (sometimes called incitement to riot)1942
3.Libel and Slander
4.Obscenity 1973
5.Conflict with other legitimate social or governmental issues

Imus clearly violated 2., and I think a pretty good case could be made for 3, 4, and 5. Also, the FCC has an obligation here. Imus wasn't just a jerk on the curb. He was using what is legally a public resource, the wavelength of his radio stations. The goverment licenses and administers those "for the public good." It's as if he ran off flyers using a copier at the Bureau of Printing and Engraving.

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Wow, yeah I was listening to this on my indie radio station briefly this morning, the bit where he called the Rutgers women's basketballers "nappy-haired ho's", then again the guy made news I heard this evening, on NPR, and all I can say is two things:

A. Here is a truly disgusting human being, a shining example of so much that is wrong with the world, a truly foul and ridiculous scumbag piece of trash, and...

B. It is a free country in which we live, like it or not these pieces of trash have absolutely the freedom of speech to say whatever disgusting nonsense comes into their puny, shriveled, hateful little brains.

I'd say more like: Shame upon and a big ol' middle finger to the network that cuts his paycheck and shame on and a fistful of middle fingers to the idiotic fanbase that kept his ratings up, for this crapola, but the bottom line, everyone, is that he's got the right, the first amendment united states right, as a u.s. citizen, to say whatever horrible nonsense pops into his useless fat head. And, also, the public's got a right and the full ability to recognise he's full of hateful, narrow-minded shaite and change the dial on their radio, and the big-daddy network's got the right to decide whether or not they want to be giving such hatred such a huge audience & paycheck in the first damn place.

There's a lot of horrible nonsense on the airwaves all over the place, from Jerry Springer and Rush Limbaugh to all kinds of people and stupid shows and crapola, and it's gross but the bottom line is they've all got that wonderful right to say whatever they want to. And we must, as a citizenry, make sure that this right stays put; it's becoming more and more eroded as time inches by, especially since 9/11. If we're not vigilant & aware, before we know it we won't be able to talk about anjfhdksjha jedia hjiohjwed hcjh. Duwi cfc. AACK!!! Did you see that?? See?? They're suppressing our voice! They'rnfjh xsjakd sjjn!!!

Mphhkiskf. Mff. MMFth!!

First Amendment rights. Freedom of speech. Don't let them slip away, and if people like that Imus cat bother you all, then please, by all means, write to the station who hired him and let 'em have it, and boycott people like that when they're on the airwaves or on TV. But don't force them to be silent, or the domino effect starts.

Frank Zappa had a lot to say about this issue, of the jeopardy of freedom of speech, I have a you-tube interview of him from the early eighties with this group of super-conservatives who were hoping to suppress his music for "questionable" lyrics, it is such an awesome interview - when I find it, if you guys are interested I'll post the link here for you to watch. It's a safe link, don't worry! It's somewhere in thsi computer, gotta dig it out, but Zappa'll blow your mind in this interview. Total genius.

Zappa's cool.

[hectorberlioz]

Personally, I concur with the opinion of Neal Boortz (http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html) on this issue.

I don't listen to Don Imus, but I know that his show is somewhere between Howard Stern and Paul Harvey in content.

Read the Boortz opinion, I think most will agree with it.


Frank Zappa? Uh guys, what I usually say about folks like Zappa and John Cage is this: they were smart enough to cash in on being "original", because they were too dumb to learn counterpoint. Same with Stockhausen.

Oh yeah, genius Zappa. Poop on stage. Yup. Genius. A dog couldn't have done it.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

There ought to be a rule requiring you to at least read the current posts before posting an opinion.

First of all, no one said "Frank Zappa is the pre-eminent composer of the modern world." *I* said, 'Zappa is cool.'

Well, he is cool, dude. He's cool. The Fonz is cool. James Dean was cool. Some things are cool. That doesn't mean they're amazing artists, great role models, whatever, just that they're cool.

Second, this man, not new to the issue, called a group of college girls by an offensive term. They were minding their own business, and he insulted them before umpety million people. THAT is "not cool."

Don't give me this BS about "they call themselves that." My friends call me a lot of things I'd punch someone else for. It's about context. And his intent was aggressive and mean. They used a racial epithet begining with a "J" that I'm not even going to type, here.

The issue is not, as Boortz seems to suggest, that idiots can be Black, too. I think everyone knows that idiots come in all colors and from all political beliefs. And there's no "quid pro quo" to suggest that racist White idiots should get a free pass because prejudiced Black idiots may have.

The man was wrong to say what he did. He was wrong to play it off for 2 days afterwards. He wasn't 'exercising his right to free speech in criticising modern Black trends in haircare', for heaven's sake, he was taking a shot at young women who play basketball, because he thought he'd get a laugh out of the morons who listen to him.

But I'm curious what it says about our society that when Isaiah Washington offended gays he went to anger management, and when Imus, who swore in 2001 that he'd stop making these remarks "fell off the wagon" as it were, anyone at all can defend him.

[Lotesse]

i am so pressed for time right now, but i'll be back later today - anyway, just wanted to say Sistercousin, what awesome posts!!! And I didn't know about those 5 limitations, I just learned something new, very cool. So THAT"s where the phrase "them's fightin' words" comes from! That guy is so disgusting, and he ought to be punished, seriously punished for all that, becauase you're right, stuff like that is exactly what starts riots. It sparks the flame that ends up making a wild bonfire, crap like that. He needs to be punished and so does that network who kept him on the air, and also, what about the FCC? They're so anxious to keep the "f" word off the airwaves but they let garbage like that use that "J" word which is almost exactly like the "N" word, and to use fighting words on national airwaves so the whole entire country can hear him?

He should endure a public flogging, then do some time in solitary at Sing-Sing.

o.k. gotta go damn! wish i had more time -

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

There ought to be a rule requiring you to at least read the current posts before posting an opinion.

Are you sure I didn't?

First of all, no one said "Frank Zappa is the pre-eminent composer of the modern world." *I* said, 'Zappa is cool.'

He's not cool. Or was not...

Well, he is cool, dude. He's cool. The Fonz is cool. James Dean was cool. Some things are cool. That doesn't mean they're amazing artists, great role models, whatever, just that they're cool.

I don't even know who the Fonz is. James Dean was famous for nothing

Second, this man, not new to the issue, called a group of college girls by an offensive term. They were minding their own business, and he insulted them before umpety million people. THAT is "not cool."

No, it isn't cool that he called them that. Pretty derogatory, but he IS in the realm of "shock jock" radio.
He actually compared them to a team down in here in TN, incidentally both teams were racially mixed.

Don't give me this BS about "they call themselves that." My friends call me a lot of things I'd punch someone else for. It's about context. And his intent was aggressive and mean. They used a racial epithet begining with a "J" that I'm not even going to type, here.

You know, I've heard it here on campus: black folks calling eachother the N word. Not "everywhere" but I've heard it a few times.

The issue is not, as Boortz seems to suggest, that idiots can be Black, too. I think everyone knows that idiots come in all colors and from all political beliefs. And there's no "quid pro quo" to suggest that racist White idiots should get a free pass because prejudiced Black idiots may have.

The question is why all the outrage then? Of course when whites say racist things it's bad, but when Al Sharkton says them it's ok, because he's an expert on racism.
It is idiotic to suggest that Imus be flogged in public, or even be fired for it.

The man was wrong to say what he did. He was wrong to play it off for 2 days afterwards. He wasn't 'exercising his right to free speech in criticising modern Black trends in haircare', for heaven's sake, he was taking a shot at young women who play basketball, because he thought he'd get a laugh out of the morons who listen to him.

It was in sick taste, there is no doubt about that.

But I'm curious what it says about our society that when Isaiah Washington offended gays he went to anger management, and when Imus, who swore in 2001 that he'd stop making these remarks "fell off the wagon" as it were, anyone at all can defend him.

Isaiah Washington is not as well known as Imus. That story didn't get half the coverage this one has, and if it had, I'm sure people would have rushed pro or con Isaiah Washington.

If you ask me, Imus is getting a lot more than Isaiah Washington.

[katya]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

I don't even know who the Fonz is.

For real?!

Regardless of what the actual laws are, I personally believe in free speech as long as it's not harmful. Ah... don't know about this case. I haven't seen/heard much of Imus but I strongly dislike him. Very strongly.

[hectorberlioz]

Here's a bit of the on-air stuff:

Imus started the firestorm after Rutgers lost championship game. He was speaking with producer Bernard McGuirk and said "that's some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos ..."

"Some hardcore hos," McGuirk said.

"That's some nappy-headed hos there, I'm going to tell you that," Imus said.

from:here

And just in case you haven't heard, Howard Stern recommends that Imus:...well, you know
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...340.shtml?s=ic

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Results 1 - 10 of about 657,000 for "James Dean" cool. (0.16 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 104,000 for "The Fonz" cool. (0.18 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,040,000 for "Frank Zappa" cool. (0.12 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 43,400 for "Hector Berlioz" cool. (0.20 seconds)

What do you suppose they'd have found under your real name?

Google rests her case.

[Insidious Rex]

Didnt MSNBC ban him for a few weeks? Same with his radio handlers.

[faerie_child]

I personally think people should get over it. people say that stuff to each other all the time. He is a comedian, trying to be funny... he made a bad joke. He said sorry. I think he should be let off. Just my opinion... not trying to offend anyone or anything. I was slightly annoyed by the comments, but freedom of speech.

[faerie_child]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Didnt MSNBC ban him for a few weeks? Same with his radio handlers.

MSNBC and CBS radio both banned him for two weeks.

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Wow, yeah I was listening to this on my indie radio station briefly this morning, the bit where he called the Rutgers women's basketballers "nappy-haired ho's", then again the guy made news I heard this evening, on NPR, and all I can say is two things:

A. Here is a truly disgusting human being, a shining example of so much that is wrong with the world, a truly foul and ridiculous scumbag piece of trash, and...

B. It is a free country in which we live, like it or not these pieces of trash have absolutely the freedom of speech to say whatever disgusting nonsense comes into their puny, shriveled, hateful little brains.

I'd say more like: Shame upon and a big ol' middle finger to the network that cuts his paycheck and shame on and a fistful of middle fingers to the idiotic fanbase that kept his ratings up, for this crapola, but the bottom line, everyone, is that he's got the right, the first amendment united states right, as a u.s. citizen, to say whatever horrible nonsense pops into his useless fat head. And, also, the public's got a right and the full ability to recognise he's full of hateful, narrow-minded shaite and change the dial on their radio, and the big-daddy network's got the right to decide whether or not they want to be giving such hatred such a huge audience & paycheck in the first damn place.

There's a lot of horrible nonsense on the airwaves all over the place, from Jerry Springer and Rush Limbaugh to all kinds of people and stupid shows and crapola, and it's gross but the bottom line is they've all got that wonderful right to say whatever they want to. And we must, as a citizenry, make sure that this right stays put; it's becoming more and more eroded as time inches by, especially since 9/11. If we're not vigilant & aware, before we know it we won't be able to talk about anjfhdksjha jedia hjiohjwed hcjh. Duwi cfc. AACK!!! Did you see that?? See?? They're suppressing our voice! They'rnfjh xsjakd sjjn!!!

Mphhkiskf. Mff. MMFth!!

First Amendment rights. Freedom of speech. Don't let them slip away, and if people like that Imus cat bother you all, then please, by all means, write to the station who hired him and let 'em have it, and boycott people like that when they're on the airwaves or on TV. But don't force them to be silent, or the domino effect starts.

Frank Zappa had a lot to say about this issue, of the jeopardy of freedom of speech, I have a you-tube interview of him from the early eighties with this group of super-conservatives who were hoping to suppress his music for "questionable" lyrics, it is such an awesome interview - when I find it, if you guys are interested I'll post the link here for you to watch. It's a safe link, don't worry! It's somewhere in thsi computer, gotta dig it out, but Zappa'll blow your mind in this interview. Total genius.

I found this to be a well informed and intellectual post. Freedom of speech most be protected at all costs.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Results 1 - 10 of about 657,000 for "James Dean" cool. (0.16 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 104,000 for "The Fonz" cool. (0.18 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,040,000 for "Frank Zappa" cool. (0.12 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 43,400 for "Hector Berlioz" cool. (0.20 seconds)

What do you suppose they'd have found under your real name?

Google rests her case.

Proof that Google is the measurement of all things irrelevant to real life, good things, and true artists.

[brownjenkins]

While liking his music is a matter of taste, Frank Zappa was a very talented musician and composer. If you don't accept that, you either haven't listened to enough of his work or you don't have an ear for talent.

John Cage was a hack though.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

While liking his music is a matter of taste, Frank Zappa was a very talented musician and composer. If you don't accept that, you either haven't listened to enough of his work or you don't have an ear for talent.

Son...*fatherly tone*

John Cage was a hack though.

We agree on this I suppose, though I wonder why you let Zappa go?

It's kinda like Penderecki: very avante garde in his younger years, original and moving. His St. Luke Passion was a hit, but still avante garde. These days though, he writes symphonies, and while they aren't fodder, they lack any kind strength OR originality. Thats what comes from not studying your harmony as much as your rhythm, kids.

[brownjenkins]

Let Zappa go?

I'm just pointing out that Zappa is probably the most talented composer in Rock music. A hell of a lot more talented compared to his peers than Berlioz was.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

Let Zappa go?

I'm just pointing out that Zappa is probably the most talented composer in Rock music. A hell of a lot more talented compared to his peers than Berlioz was.

Oh now you are REALLY going to pay...

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by faerie_child

I personally think people should get over it. people say that stuff to each other all the time. He is a comedian, trying to be funny... he made a bad joke.

I disagree. It wasn’t even said as a joke just a comment. And it was clearly hateful and stupid and indicates an inherent racism. Its one thing to go after celebrities or politicians or whatever but to make racist derogatory comments about young college age girls who just lost a game? Truly sad and disgusting. Those kids aren’t in a position to defend themselves. Its like picking on a 2nd grader when you are in high school.

Unfortunately a lot of people think like him in our society. They just don’t have a national radio program to let it slip on. Im glad hes suffering from this. I don’t need him fired but I wouldn’t cry if he ends up losing his job over it. Just the image hit alone is bad enough though. Hes lost so much respect from so many people who thought better of him. And now his advertisers are pulling out.