The growing mythology of LOTR

Black Breathalizer · 09-03-2002, 10:51 AM

The first couple of times I watched the movie I couldn’t resist comparing everything Peter Jackson did to the books. But, like Orlindall, I quickly began to enjoy the movie on its own merit and have developed a rich appreciation for how wonderful the movie was made.

I think if Tolkien were still alive, he would be the first to congratulate Jackson for capturing the essence of his story (which, by the way, is no small accomplishment.) Tolkien wasn’t writing a fantasy story, he was writing MYTH and following in the ancient footsteps of the Nordic, Greek, and Roman mythmakers he studied all his life. People who study ancient mythology know there are variations on many of the stories. So he would be the first to say that Jackson’s retelling of his LOTR tale doesn’t detract from his story but instead – as with the mythmakers of old – only builds a new layer on the wonderful “mythology” that he created.

So there’s no need to argue which is better – they are woven from the same mythical cloth and enhances our appreciation of both. Regarding the movie, I particularly love:

Jackson’s version of the Breaking of the Fellowship. After my initial “omigod, this is SO DIFFERENT from Tolkien” reaction, I’ve grown to admire how Jackson’s version tied everything together to create an exciting and very dramatic ending to the first chapter of the movie trilogy. Wasn’t it great to have every member of the Fellowship play a role in helping Frodo continue on his quest? I thought it really enhanced the LOTR mythology to have Pippin and Merry sacrificed themselves in order to lead the orcs away from where Frodo was hiding. As a result, their capture by the orcs became yet another shining example of the selflessness of true friendship.

Jackson’s portrayal of Frodo. The only real criticism I heard about FOTR was that Frodo was portrayed as being ‘weak.’ Jackson has acknowledged in interviews that he added a few things with Frodo in order to create an emotional climax for the movie which was important because the full story plays out over three movies instead of one. Personally, my understanding of, and empathy with, Frodo was enhanced by the movie. We all can relate to Frodo’s reluctance to carry on and fear of going on alone. As a result, the audience appreciated the courage and determination Frodo showed by jumping into the river boat alone much more than the usual bravado shown by the usual assortment of summer movie heros.

Jackson’s portrayal of Aragorn. Another stroke of genius was the way Jackson expanded on aspects of Aragorn’s personality that Tolkien only addressed indirectly. Having Frodo test Aragorn’s will at the end of the FOTR was a very dramatic and powerful way for Aragorn prove himself worthy of the throne by redeeming his himself and his forefathers for the fall of Isildur.

As we all know the Council of Elrond was very different from the book. I was one of those Tolkienites in the audience who thought “where’s Bilbo?” and “why the hell are they FIGHTING for crying out loud?” the first time I saw it. Now but I’ve grown to appreciate how well Jackson took a section of the book that was guaranteed to translate poorly to film and turned it into something very powerful and moving in its own unique way. I love rewatching the council scenes and while we lost Bilbo, we’ve gained the magical elf, FIGWIT! =)

I have developed a total trust in Jackson’s vision and can’t wait to see how he has decided to interpret Eowyn, Treebeard, Theoden and especially Gollum. It will be fun.
[B]

Lizra · 09-03-2002, 01:03 PM

Well OK! Welcome

Urksnik the Sleek · 09-03-2002, 03:15 PM

Hooray for a voice of sanity where the film is concerned!
I agree completely with all you say, only I could never find the right words. I loved the film, despite the changes made, and feel that most of them make at least some sense, especially considering the huge amount of non Tolkien readers who will see the film, and wouldn't understand some of the finer nuances of the plot without huge amounts of explanation.

Rána Eressëa · 09-03-2002, 05:18 PM

You slick genius, you.

galadriel · 09-03-2002, 08:00 PM

What an entrance!

To vaguely quote... somebody on the net... movies like Harry Potter might be visually perfect, but on their own, they're kind of pointless. Lord of the Rings had *soul*.

BeardofPants · 09-03-2002, 08:05 PM

Methinks I'll refrain from commenting.

Black Breathalizer · 09-04-2002, 08:42 AM

thankyouthankyouthankyou

[Blackie acknowledges the applause from the peanut gallery.]

Spock · 09-04-2002, 02:28 PM

The city of Troy was considered a myth, until it was found.
Hobbits, LOTR etc. are myths too. Think on it.

entss89 · 09-04-2002, 04:27 PM

um very looooooooooooooooooong, but good for you!

(P.S.: i didnt have time to read it all!sorry.)

BeardofPants · 09-04-2002, 05:33 PM

Why did you bother posting then?

LuthienTinuviel · 09-04-2002, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spock
The city of Troy was considered a myth, until it was found.
Hobbits, LOTR etc. are myths too. Think on it.

i believe.

Vorernil · 09-05-2002, 01:53 AM

Black Breathalizer (did I spell that right???) - VERY well said!!! Good for u - I TOTALLY understand what U mean . . . & U are very right. Bravo!!!

viggosbeard · 09-05-2002, 11:18 AM

black breathalizer - wonderfully put, i totally agree.

( mind you , you do realise your life is now in danger from the ninja sheep ! good job you never mentioned how good the music was ! )

Black Breathalizer · 09-05-2002, 01:28 PM

...did I mention how GREAT the music was???

Interestingly, when I first purchased the CD before the movie came out, I liked it but it didn't overwhelm me.

But it is one of those soundtracks that just keeps growing on me. One of the best things about the music is the way it captures the emotion of every scene. I can listen to the soundtrack in my car and watch the whole movie play out in my mind.

Nibs · 09-05-2002, 01:51 PM

Ah, hindsight. Nothing to do now but agree.

BeardofPants · 09-05-2002, 05:04 PM

Ninja sheep? Try a box full of them.

entss89 · 09-05-2002, 05:08 PM

the reason i posted is because i never saw someone new post that long! sorry if i upset you!

Erawyn · 09-05-2002, 09:35 PM

Just like most ppl (other than sheep woman) I totally agree!!!! i've been trying to say this (but more incoherently than you) and I love the music. I have one question (and i hugely out of the loop) who is figwit?

Black Breathalizer · 09-05-2002, 10:38 PM

Figwit is the "fan name" for the elf that many female FOTR fans have been swooning over. He is briefly seen in the left hand corner of the screen in the Council scene immediately after Frodo says he will take the ring to Mordor.

A woman from Canada who started the Figwit craze named him after the first words that she uttered as she was admiring Frodo's courage before spying this elf: "Frodo Is Grea...Who Is THAT?!?!?!?"

Do a name search on Figwit and you'll learn more.

Black Breathalizer · 09-05-2002, 10:41 PM

Oops...I meant Figwit is on the RIGHT hand side of the WIDESCREEN version (he's cut out of the other version entirely).

09-03-2002, 10:51 AM	#1
Black Breathalizer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 828	The growing mythology of LOTR The first couple of times I watched the movie I couldn’t resist comparing everything Peter Jackson did to the books. But, like Orlindall, I quickly began to enjoy the movie on its own merit and have developed a rich appreciation for how wonderful the movie was made. I think if Tolkien were still alive, he would be the first to congratulate Jackson for capturing the essence of his story (which, by the way, is no small accomplishment.) Tolkien wasn’t writing a fantasy story, he was writing MYTH and following in the ancient footsteps of the Nordic, Greek, and Roman mythmakers he studied all his life. People who study ancient mythology know there are variations on many of the stories. So he would be the first to say that Jackson’s retelling of his LOTR tale doesn’t detract from his story but instead – as with the mythmakers of old – only builds a new layer on the wonderful “mythology” that he created. So there’s no need to argue which is better – they are woven from the same mythical cloth and enhances our appreciation of both. Regarding the movie, I particularly love: Jackson’s version of the Breaking of the Fellowship. After my initial “omigod, this is SO DIFFERENT from Tolkien” reaction, I’ve grown to admire how Jackson’s version tied everything together to create an exciting and very dramatic ending to the first chapter of the movie trilogy. Wasn’t it great to have every member of the Fellowship play a role in helping Frodo continue on his quest? I thought it really enhanced the LOTR mythology to have Pippin and Merry sacrificed themselves in order to lead the orcs away from where Frodo was hiding. As a result, their capture by the orcs became yet another shining example of the selflessness of true friendship. Jackson’s portrayal of Frodo. The only real criticism I heard about FOTR was that Frodo was portrayed as being ‘weak.’ Jackson has acknowledged in interviews that he added a few things with Frodo in order to create an emotional climax for the movie which was important because the full story plays out over three movies instead of one. Personally, my understanding of, and empathy with, Frodo was enhanced by the movie. We all can relate to Frodo’s reluctance to carry on and fear of going on alone. As a result, the audience appreciated the courage and determination Frodo showed by jumping into the river boat alone much more than the usual bravado shown by the usual assortment of summer movie heros. Jackson’s portrayal of Aragorn. Another stroke of genius was the way Jackson expanded on aspects of Aragorn’s personality that Tolkien only addressed indirectly. Having Frodo test Aragorn’s will at the end of the FOTR was a very dramatic and powerful way for Aragorn prove himself worthy of the throne by redeeming his himself and his forefathers for the fall of Isildur. As we all know the Council of Elrond was very different from the book. I was one of those Tolkienites in the audience who thought “where’s Bilbo?” and “why the hell are they FIGHTING for crying out loud?” the first time I saw it. Now but I’ve grown to appreciate how well Jackson took a section of the book that was guaranteed to translate poorly to film and turned it into something very powerful and moving in its own unique way. I love rewatching the council scenes and while we lost Bilbo, we’ve gained the magical elf, FIGWIT! =) I have developed a total trust in Jackson’s vision and can’t wait to see how he has decided to interpret Eowyn, Treebeard, Theoden and especially Gollum. It will be fun. [B]

09-03-2002, 03:15 PM	#3
Urksnik the Sleek Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: under the misty mountains Posts: 33	Hooray for a voice of sanity where the film is concerned! I agree completely with all you say, only I could never find the right words. I loved the film, despite the changes made, and feel that most of them make at least some sense, especially considering the huge amount of non Tolkien readers who will see the film, and wouldn't understand some of the finer nuances of the plot without huge amounts of explanation. __________________ The world was fair, the mountains tall In Elder Days before the fall Of mighty kings in Nargothrond And Gondolin, who now beyond The Western Seas have passed away The world was fair in Durin's Day.

09-03-2002, 08:00 PM	#5
galadriel Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a castle made of clouds Posts: 459	What an entrance! To vaguely quote... somebody on the net... movies like Harry Potter might be visually perfect, but on their own, they're kind of pointless. Lord of the Rings had soul. __________________ Human kind cannot bear very much reality. dreamflower - for all things Lady Galadriel

09-03-2002, 08:05 PM	#6
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Methinks I'll refrain from commenting. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

09-04-2002, 08:42 AM	#7
Black Breathalizer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 828	hmmmm thankyouthankyouthankyou [Blackie acknowledges the applause from the peanut gallery.]

09-03-2002, 01:03 PM	#2
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Well OK! Welcome

09-03-2002, 05:18 PM	#4
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	You slick genius, you.

09-04-2002, 02:28 PM	#8
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	The city of Troy was considered a myth, until it was found. Hobbits, LOTR etc. are myths too. Think on it. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

09-04-2002, 04:27 PM	#9
entss89 lord of the ents Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: nc Posts: 539	ummmmmmmmmmmmm! um very looooooooooooooooooong, but good for you! (P.S.: i didnt have time to read it all!sorry.)

09-04-2002, 05:33 PM	#10
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Re: ummmmmmmmmmmmm! Why did you bother posting then? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

09-05-2002, 01:53 AM	#12
Vorernil Hobbit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 22	Black Breathalizer (did I spell that right???) - VERY well said!!! Good for u - I TOTALLY understand what U mean . . . & U are very right. Bravo!!! __________________ Diddle deeeee!!!

09-05-2002, 11:18 AM	#13
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	black breathalizer - wonderfully put, i totally agree. ( mind you , you do realise your life is now in danger from the ninja sheep ! good job you never mentioned how good the music was ! ) __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

09-05-2002, 01:28 PM	#14
Black Breathalizer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 828	oh, by the way... ...did I mention how GREAT the music was??? Interestingly, when I first purchased the CD before the movie came out, I liked it but it didn't overwhelm me. But it is one of those soundtracks that just keeps growing on me. One of the best things about the music is the way it captures the emotion of every scene. I can listen to the soundtrack in my car and watch the whole movie play out in my mind.

09-05-2002, 01:51 PM	#15
Nibs Head Hollara Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 751	Ah, hindsight. Nothing to do now but agree. __________________ "People used to ring up and say 'Don't quit your day job' or 'sell your synth', but the joke's on them: we were fired and the synth is broken!" -John Flansburgh from They Might Be Giants Ever heard of Mormons? I'm one. Click here to know more about us.

09-05-2002, 05:04 PM	#16
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Ninja sheep? Try a box full of them. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

09-05-2002, 05:08 PM	#17
entss89 lord of the ents Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: nc Posts: 539	HI the reason i posted is because i never saw someone new post that long! sorry if i upset you!

09-05-2002, 09:35 PM	#18
Erawyn Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: america junior Posts: 320	Just like most ppl (other than sheep woman) I totally agree!!!! i've been trying to say this (but more incoherently than you) and I love the music. I have one question (and i hugely out of the loop) who is figwit? __________________ peace never hurt anyone "Be not so bigoted to any custom as to worship it at the expense of Truth." Johann Georg von Zimmermann

09-05-2002, 10:38 PM	#19
Black Breathalizer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 828	Figwit Figwit is the "fan name" for the elf that many female FOTR fans have been swooning over. He is briefly seen in the left hand corner of the screen in the Council scene immediately after Frodo says he will take the ring to Mordor. A woman from Canada who started the Figwit craze named him after the first words that she uttered as she was admiring Frodo's courage before spying this elf: "Frodo Is Grea...Who Is THAT?!?!?!?" Do a name search on Figwit and you'll learn more.

09-05-2002, 10:41 PM	#20
Black Breathalizer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 828	Figwit Oops...I meant Figwit is on the RIGHT hand side of the WIDESCREEN version (he's cut out of the other version entirely).

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