Aragorn and Arwen, incest?

[Grey Fool]

Just curious what others think.

Aragorn is descended directly from Elros, Elrond's brother. Arwen is Elrond's daughter. What are the chances their children might have genetic defects? What would the church think about such a marriage (issues of consanguinity, etc.)?

[Elbereth Gilthoniel]

I don't think that their children have problems because there is a lot of generation betwin them.

[Sween]

ive done this thread b4

[crickhollow]

Originally posted by Sween
ive done this thread b4

why am I not surprised?

[BeardofPants]

If it's okay for 2nd cousins to marry in some parts of the world, heck even first cousins, I think it would be okay for Arwen and Aragorn who are removed from each other by several generations. Eesh.

[Starr Polish]

This was discussed in an earlier thread, though it wasn't hte specific topic. It got really in depth. Someone, I think Nolendil, revealed that Arwen is her own fifth cousin.

I'd say there are plenty of generations between them as not to worry. I think almost half the states in the US allow marriage between first cousins .

[Renille]

Yes. The generation gap is too wide to matter at all, luckily.

But how is Arwen her own 5th cousin???? That makes no sense...which thread is this?? Must read...

What I was wondering is...isn't Aragorn marrying someone virtually thousands of years older than himself? When you think about it, he's marrying a pretty old lady. It's strange.

[Khamûl]

Originally posted by Renille
But how is Arwen her own 5th cousin???? That makes no sense...which thread is this?? Must read...

Hey, if you can be your own grandfather...

[Ñólendil]

For all I know, Arwen/Aragorn is no more incestuous than Ñolendil/Grey Fool.

But how is Arwen her own 5th cousin???? That makes no sense...which thread is this?? Must read...

I probably did say that. Let me think, ... Ah yes, for Lúthien and Galadhon were first cousins. Lúthien had a son: Dior. Galadhon had two sons, one of which was Celeborn. Celeborn and Dior were second cousins. Dior had a daughter: Elwing. Celeborn had a daughter: CelebrÃ*an. Elwing and CelebrÃ*an were third cousins. Elwing had a son: Elrond. CelebrÃ*an was Elrond's fourth cousin once removed. They married eachother and their daughter was Arwen. Arwen was thus her own 5th cousin once removed. Or take a look at this horrible chart, the dashes represent a sibling relationship, the tildes denote cousins, and the degree of the cousins is placed after as a number:

Elwe --------- Elmo
I
Lúthien ~ 1 Galadhon
I
Dior ~ 2 Celeborn
I
Elwing ~ 3 CelebrÃ*an
I
Elrond ~ 4 Arwen
I
Arwen ~ 5 Eldarion
I
Eldarion ~ 6

[Renille]

OKAY. Now that makes sense. Thank you very much! But that's still so strange...I wonder if it happens at all in real life.

Khamûl, how can you be your own grandfather??? That doesn't make sense, either.( Or am I being gullible yet again??)

[crickhollow]

Renille, Khamûl is probably referring to this song:

Now many, many years ago, when I was twenty-three,
I was married to a widow who was pretty as could be.
This widow had a grown-up daughter who had hair of red.
My father fell in love with her, and soon they, too, were wed.

This made my dad my son-in-law and changed my very life,
My daughter was my mother, cause she was my father's wife.
To complicate the matter, even though it brought me joy,
I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy.

My little baby then became a brother-in-law to Dad,
And so became my uncle, though it made me very sad.
For if he was my uncle, then that also made him brother
Of the widow's grown-up daughter, who, of course, was my stepmother.

Father's wife then had a son who kept him on the run,
And he became my grandchild, for he was my daughter's son.
My wife is now my mother's mother, and it makes me blue,
Because, although she is my wife, she's my grandmother, too.

Now if my wife is my grandmother, then I'm her grandchild,
And everytime I think of it, it nearly drives me wild,
For now I have become the strangest case you ever saw
As husband of my grandmother, I am my own grandpa!

The logic is dizzying.

[Lanelf]

*falls over from the dizzying effect of logic* I'd thought of this before, when I read the Silmarillion. It's got family trees in the back.
I'm guessing it's OK if there's so many generations between them, but when I noticed I still got a bit of a shock. *shrugs* Must be a cultural thing.
Lanelf.

[Dussander]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
If it's okay for 2nd cousins to marry in some parts of the world, heck even first cousins, I think it would be okay for Arwen and Aragorn who are removed from each other by several generations. Eesh.

Like Arkansas?

[Khamûl]

Originally posted by crickhollow
Renille, Khamûl is probably referring to this song:

"Now many, many years ago, when I was twenty-three,
I was married to a widow who was pretty as could be.
This widow had a grown-up daughter who had hair of red.
My father fell in love with her, and soon they, too, were wed.

This made my dad my son-in-law and changed my very life,
My daughter was my mother, cause she was my father's wife.
To complicate the matter, even though it brought me joy,
I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy.

My little baby then became a brother-in-law to Dad,
And so became my uncle, though it made me very sad.
For if he was my uncle, then that also made him brother
Of the widow's grown-up daughter, who, of course, was my stepmother.

Father's wife then had a son who kept him on the run,
And he became my grandchild, for he was my daughter's son.
My wife is now my mother's mother, and it makes me blue,
Because, although she is my wife, she's my grandmother, too.

Now if my wife is my grandmother, then I'm her grandchild,
And everytime I think of it, it nearly drives me wild,
For now I have become the strangest case you ever saw
As husband of my grandmother, I am my own grandpa!"

The logic is dizzying.

*applauds* Well done, crickhollow.

We actually did a family tree about that song when we studied genetics in biology. What a messed up family.

[durin's bane]

Arwen and Aragorn are so far apart you can might as well just call them unrelated anyway.

[Renille]

I wish I hadn't asked.

Thank you crickhollow. That made slight sense, though it did give me a slight headache afterwards.

Hmmph, I wish MY genetics unit could be fun like that! We just did Punnet squares to 4 or so traits for 2 weeks!

[crickhollow]

Originally posted by Khamûl
*applauds* Well done, crickhollow.

We actually did a family tree about that song when we studied genetics in biology. What a messed up family.

*sweeping bow* thank you. I learned it from my sister when she took a Music for Children course.

[Radagast The Brown]

There is almost no kinship between Arwen and Aragorn. There were many generations between Elros and Aragorn, and there are not relatives, though I think Arwen could be like his grand grand grandmother.

[Treebeard's apprentice]

When you think about it we are all descended from the same ancestor(s). Therefore anyone who has slept with someone else is guilty of inscest, even if on a very very very very very very very *deep breath* very diluted scale (is diluted the right word? There's gotta be a better way to say that. Anyway, you know what I mean).

So there. Stick that in your cap for a rainy day.

[Radagast The Brown]

I think that it's obvious.