how can we manage without the Scouring of the Shire

Entlover · 07-18-2002, 12:25 AM

I just finished the Scouring of the Shire and this is really bugging me: how can PJ finish the movies without including the Scouring?

Can he just have our heroes return to the Shire and it's all fine just as when they left?
Or have a scene a year later that refers to what went on?
The Scouring is a perfect opportunity to show how Merry and Pippin have changed from comic idiots to leaders and warriors; he'll have to show that some other way if the Scouring's left out.
Then there are the rumors about Saruman dying on a wheel? How would that fit in?
What do you all think?

olsonm · 07-18-2002, 12:48 AM

PJ has made the destruction of the ring the sole storyline. All three movies and everything in them revolves around this. All the storylines have been bent or slightly altered to fit this (Aragorn's story being the most notable). The Scouring is not directly related to this and would seem out of place in this version of the story.

BeardofPants · 07-18-2002, 12:51 AM

I think Peter Jackson is an idiot.

Okay, maybe that is a *bit* strong, but for me, FOTR (the movie) was a let down, and I can only imagine it's gonna get worse from here in.

No scouring? And just think: that combined with the fact that Merry & Pippin have been made into comic relief... It doesn't bode well, my friends.

Lizra · 07-18-2002, 01:15 AM

My first thought is that the destruction of the ring is such a dramatic climax, that the movies will stop at that point. Then there's Aragorn though. I think somehow, he might be shown becoming a king (in some manner) before the Ring Bearer fulfills his quest, and the movie ending on the the dramatic downfall of Sauron. Just a guess.....

olsonm · 07-18-2002, 01:16 AM

Actually, given what little we know about the stucture of TT and ROTK, PJ would be an idiot if he let in the Scouring. Mt. Doom/Aragorn's coronation is the climax and the Grey Havens is the epilogue. Beginning a new story only tangentally related to the quest of the ring in between the climax and epilogue would be difficult to pull of smoothly in a movie.

BeardofPants · 07-18-2002, 02:45 AM

Agreed. It doesn't make the mangling of the books any easier to bear though.

olsonm · 07-18-2002, 02:53 AM

The books were mangled as soon as they decided to make a movie out of them. They aren't suited to the medium (at least not as written). I accept PJ calling the movies an interpretation rather than an adaption (I also note that they stopped calling the movie "JRR Tolkien's Lord of the Rings"). I also accept your dissatisfaction with them.

Entlover · 07-18-2002, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by olsonm
Mt. Doom/Aragorn's coronation is the climax and the Grey Havens is the epilogue.

I like this way of looking at it. I refuse to settle for anything less than the Gray Havens at the end, however.

Maybe an antacid would help, BOP.

The Ringbearer · 07-18-2002, 05:27 AM

Me too!

Of course, we must think of the unleaned audience too. They will be looking forward to a relaxing end, so PJ decided to cut it, as it isn't a "important" part in the book.

The Ringbearer · 07-18-2002, 05:30 AM

ACK! Another typo! That should be "unlearned".

Hissss. We doesn't like that 90 second rule......

BeardofPants · 07-18-2002, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ringbearer
Me too!

Of course, we must think of the unleaned audience too. They will be looking forward to a relaxing end, so PJ decided to cut it, as it isn't a "important" part in the book.

But that's just it: while it may not be a "central" storyline (in terms of the destruction of the ring), I DO happen to deem it a pretty important plot development in terms of the "evolution" of the Hobbits' characters. *sigh*

Oh, and I've already gobbled my way through several packets of quickeeze. Thanks for asking!

Lizra · 07-18-2002, 08:10 AM

The grey Havens would be a good ending! I just hope it's done (the coronation, if it's in there) better than the shmaltzy celebration at the end of that Star Wars movie, (the Ewoks one).

Entlover · 07-18-2002, 01:23 PM

Coronations, if similar events I've been to are any indication, tend to be boring.
But I have great hope, because PJ did such a good job on the birthday party in the beginning.
We must have the "Praise them with great praise!" part, also the gray havens, and Samwise returning home to Rose and Elanor.
Either that or Frodo on shipboard and his first sight of the Undying Lands -- but that may be asking a bit much. I vote for Samwise.

Lizra · 07-18-2002, 03:44 PM

Yes, The birthday party was great....That's a pleasant thought!!

Faramir · 07-18-2002, 05:22 PM

I'll miss the Scouring of the Shire. But I don't think PJ is an idiot as BoP put it. The RotK will probably be the longest movie, and TSotS isn't that important to the story line. But don't get me wrong, I will miss it.

Khadrane · 07-18-2002, 07:20 PM

I seriously think they should leave "Scouring of the Shire" in the movie. Leaving out Bombadil was bad enough, but leaving out SotS would be demonic.

P.S. The Ringbearer, you can just edit your post and change the typo w/o having to wait 90 sec.

cassiopeia · 07-18-2002, 11:34 PM

I've resigned myself to the fact that there will be no scouring.

As for Saruman this is my theory (which will probably be wrong

): when Gandalf and co. go to Isengard after its destruction, Grima will push Saruman onto the wheel. Obviously Saruman won't be killed in the Shire. Pippin and Merry will hopefully have changed after thier battles, and so the scouring is not needed to show that fact.

We have to remember that this is not JRRT's LOTR, but Peter Jackson's LOTR. If he thinks that the Scouring, Tom, ect. won't work then that his decision. But I will be angry if ROTK doesn't end with Sam saying "Well, I'm back".

samwise of the shire · 07-19-2002, 01:51 PM

But if there wasn't any Scouring Pj will have to alter the scene on Mt. Doom as well. Frodo doesn't succed in his quest. HE doesn't destroy the Ring. Gollum does. Frodo FAILS. And ummm I remember Galadriel saying that if he didn't succed in the quest then all that he saw would happen. So I haven't lost hope completely. Besides PJ didn't make that many alterations in FOTR
Why should that change in TTT and ROTK? I dont think that they'll make such a stupid mistake as to change the whole scene on Mt Doom. It would destroy the whole story as well. If they had planned on doing that the whole plot line would be changed.
And isn't LOTR all about destroying the Ring? Or is there something I missed?
Sam

olsonm · 07-19-2002, 03:39 PM

What Frodo saw in the mirror wasn't the Scouring. It was a vision of Sauron's might should the ring not be destroyed. No matter who destroys the ring once it's destroyed the mirror vision can't happen. PJ has said the scouring is out, unequivocally.

HobbitChick88 · 07-20-2002, 10:20 PM

I seriously hope they don't cut the Scouring b/c that's one of the better parts in ROTK. I don't know how they'll do Merry and Pippin growing "mature" if they cut it out. The Scouring helps show how more better behaved they are and how they aren't near as afraid as they were @ first. I also think it's important to notice the difference between how they act at the beginning and how they act at the end.

07-18-2002, 12:25 AM	#1
Entlover Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 463	how can we manage without the Scouring of the Shire I just finished the Scouring of the Shire and this is really bugging me: how can PJ finish the movies without including the Scouring? Can he just have our heroes return to the Shire and it's all fine just as when they left? Or have a scene a year later that refers to what went on? The Scouring is a perfect opportunity to show how Merry and Pippin have changed from comic idiots to leaders and warriors; he'll have to show that some other way if the Scouring's left out. Then there are the rumors about Saruman dying on a wheel? How would that fit in? What do you all think?

07-18-2002, 12:48 AM	#2
olsonm Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: minneapolis MN Posts: 920	PJ has made the destruction of the ring the sole storyline. All three movies and everything in them revolves around this. All the storylines have been bent or slightly altered to fit this (Aragorn's story being the most notable). The Scouring is not directly related to this and would seem out of place in this version of the story. __________________ Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!!

07-18-2002, 12:51 AM	#3
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	I think Peter Jackson is an idiot. Okay, maybe that is a bit strong, but for me, FOTR (the movie) was a let down, and I can only imagine it's gonna get worse from here in. No scouring? And just think: that combined with the fact that Merry & Pippin have been made into comic relief... It doesn't bode well, my friends. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 07-18-2002 at 12:52 AM.

07-18-2002, 01:15 AM	#4
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	My first thought is that the destruction of the ring is such a dramatic climax, that the movies will stop at that point. Then there's Aragorn though. I think somehow, he might be shown becoming a king (in some manner) before the Ring Bearer fulfills his quest, and the movie ending on the the dramatic downfall of Sauron. Just a guess..... Last edited by Lizra : 07-18-2002 at 01:16 AM.

07-18-2002, 01:16 AM	#5
olsonm Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: minneapolis MN Posts: 920	Actually, given what little we know about the stucture of TT and ROTK, PJ would be an idiot if he let in the Scouring. Mt. Doom/Aragorn's coronation is the climax and the Grey Havens is the epilogue. Beginning a new story only tangentally related to the quest of the ring in between the climax and epilogue would be difficult to pull of smoothly in a movie. __________________ Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!!

07-18-2002, 02:45 AM	#6
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Agreed. It doesn't make the mangling of the books any easier to bear though. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

07-18-2002, 02:53 AM	#7
olsonm Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: minneapolis MN Posts: 920	The books were mangled as soon as they decided to make a movie out of them. They aren't suited to the medium (at least not as written). I accept PJ calling the movies an interpretation rather than an adaption (I also note that they stopped calling the movie "JRR Tolkien's Lord of the Rings"). I also accept your dissatisfaction with them. __________________ Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!!

07-18-2002, 05:27 AM	#9
The Ringbearer Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Crickhollow in the summer, and Rivendell in the winter Posts: 397	Me too! Of course, we must think of the unleaned audience too. They will be looking forward to a relaxing end, so PJ decided to cut it, as it isn't a "important" part in the book. __________________ 'Go away, and never come back!!' '......what?' 'But you're a part of this world! Aren't you?' Frodo lives!

07-18-2002, 05:30 AM	#10
The Ringbearer Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Crickhollow in the summer, and Rivendell in the winter Posts: 397	ACK! Another typo! That should be "unlearned". Hissss. We doesn't like that 90 second rule...... __________________ 'Go away, and never come back!!' '......what?' 'But you're a part of this world! Aren't you?' Frodo lives!

07-18-2002, 08:10 AM	#12
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	The grey Havens would be a good ending! I just hope it's done (the coronation, if it's in there) better than the shmaltzy celebration at the end of that Star Wars movie, (the Ewoks one).

07-18-2002, 01:23 PM	#13
Entlover Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 463	Coronations, if similar events I've been to are any indication, tend to be boring. But I have great hope, because PJ did such a good job on the birthday party in the beginning. We must have the "Praise them with great praise!" part, also the gray havens, and Samwise returning home to Rose and Elanor. Either that or Frodo on shipboard and his first sight of the Undying Lands -- but that may be asking a bit much. I vote for Samwise.

07-18-2002, 03:44 PM	#14
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Yes, The birthday party was great....That's a pleasant thought!!

07-18-2002, 05:22 PM	#15
Faramir Elven Warrior Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ithilien Posts: 353	I'll miss the Scouring of the Shire. But I don't think PJ is an idiot as BoP put it. The RotK will probably be the longest movie, and TSotS isn't that important to the story line. But don't get me wrong, I *will* miss it. __________________ This is the Window of the Sunset, Henneth Annun, fairest of all the falls of Ithilien, land of many fountains."-Faramir, Chapter IV, The Two Towers ========================== FRODO LIVES!!! ========================== YODA IS DA MAN!!! ========================== I Love Jesus!

07-18-2002, 07:20 PM	#16
Khadrane Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Middle Earth (I wish) Posts: 670	I seriously think they should leave "Scouring of the Shire" in the movie. Leaving out Bombadil was bad enough, but leaving out SotS would be demonic. P.S. The Ringbearer, you can just edit your post and change the typo w/o having to wait 90 sec. __________________ Few know whither their road will take them till they come to its end. -Legolas FRODO LIVES! ABORTION IS HOMICIDE

07-18-2002, 11:34 PM	#17
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	I've resigned myself to the fact that there will be no scouring. As for Saruman this is my theory (which will probably be wrong ): when Gandalf and co. go to Isengard after its destruction, Grima will push Saruman onto the wheel. Obviously Saruman won't be killed in the Shire. Pippin and Merry will hopefully have changed after thier battles, and so the scouring is not needed to show that fact. We have to remember that this is not JRRT's LOTR, but Peter Jackson's LOTR. If he thinks that the Scouring, Tom, ect. won't work then that his decision. But I will be angry if ROTK doesn't end with Sam saying "Well, I'm back". __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

07-19-2002, 01:51 PM	#18
samwise of the shire Radically Tolkienited Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+>< Posts: 967	But if there wasn't any Scouring Pj will have to alter the scene on Mt. Doom as well. Frodo doesn't succed in his quest. HE doesn't destroy the Ring. Gollum does. Frodo FAILS. And ummm I remember Galadriel saying that if he didn't succed in the quest then all that he saw would happen. So I haven't lost hope completely. Besides PJ didn't make that many alterations in FOTR Why should that change in TTT and ROTK? I dont think that they'll make such a stupid mistake as to change the whole scene on Mt Doom. It would destroy the whole story as well. If they had planned on doing that the whole plot line would be changed. And isn't LOTR all about destroying the Ring? Or is there something I missed? Sam __________________ Jesus is my all in all <><+<><+<><+<><+<><+<><+ People who are so concerned with escapism do have a name...we call them jailers. ~J.R.R Tolkien Radically Saved, Totally Tolkienited GOD... BLESS... AMERICA...

07-19-2002, 03:39 PM	#19
olsonm Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: minneapolis MN Posts: 920	What Frodo saw in the mirror wasn't the Scouring. It was a vision of Sauron's might should the ring not be destroyed. No matter who destroys the ring once it's destroyed the mirror vision can't happen. PJ has said the scouring is out, unequivocally. __________________ Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!!

07-20-2002, 10:20 PM	#20
HobbitChick88 Elven Warrior Join Date: May 2002 Location: Sweet Home Alabama Posts: 237	I seriously hope they don't cut the Scouring b/c that's one of the better parts in ROTK. I don't know how they'll do Merry and Pippin growing "mature" if they cut it out. The Scouring helps show how more better behaved they are and how they aren't near as afraid as they were @ first. I also think it's important to notice the difference between how they act at the beginning and how they act at the end. __________________ "Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars..." ~The Hobbit "And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whose you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." -Joshua 24:15 Step follows step, Hope follows courage. Set your face toward danger Set your heart on victory! "Where is Elizabeth?" "She's safe, just like I promised. She's all set to marry Norrington just like she promised, and you get to die for her just like you promised. So we're all men of our word, really....except for Elizabeth who is, in fact, a woman." ~Will Turner and Jack Sparrow, POTC fROdO LIVeS!!!!

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