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07-30-2007, 11:12 PM | #1 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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What's up with the support for porn and prostitution?
I kind of 'get' why no one takes drinking seriously as a problem. That usually takes a few friends being killed or hitting bottom.
But hasn't anyone been talking to y'all enough about sexually transmitted disease for you to take any interest in that as a danger? Because it isn't, sadly, something you always get a second chance at. Nice quiet case of chlamydia can mess up having kids, and no one will be doing universal testing for stuff like that, particularly in societies with complete majority at 16. So, why is it so clearly split along "moral" lines, with no thought about public health? And quaint notions about prostitution and porn being victimless. I just can't believe no one has questioned that. Can anyone explain it to me?
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
07-30-2007, 11:23 PM | #2 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Well, I think porn is definitely immoral, but I also think that it's not really something that's up to the government to decide. The primary victim is the perpetrator, and IMO, if he does end up hurting someone else, he probably would have anyway.
As regards prostitution, again, I think it is highly immoral, but I support legalisation of it simply because I think that is the best way to control the spread of STDs. It will definitely not go away if you illegalise, it will simply become a back-alley thing, sleazy, and much more unsafe. If it is legalised, then the government can enforce testing for STDs, and ban women or men who have them from practicing prostitution. Of course, there will still be the back-alley illegal whoring, just because it's cheaper, but I don't think you can just sit there without doing anything; enforcing STD testing will decrease the spread of STDs, even if it won't stop it altogether, and you can only enforce STD testing by legalising prostitution. So, I don't vote for those along "moral" lines, but along the lines of the harm of society.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 07-30-2007 at 11:25 PM. |
07-31-2007, 12:29 AM | #3 | |
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 07-31-2007 at 12:33 AM. |
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07-31-2007, 03:44 AM | #4 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
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Most of the problems associated with prostitution (including the brutality and exploitation suffered by prostitutes, which I would be most concerned about) could be addressed by legalising it.
But I'd be interested to hear what the public health issues around porn are. I can't think of any. |
07-31-2007, 09:37 AM | #5 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
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If the porn we're talking about is pictures of naked adult women, posed on lacy sheets, well, the only question is why they're doing that instead of something more...constructive. Natural extroversion doesn't lead most people to a career in that, except if the money is an issue. That isn't where porn stops, though, is it? People interact, and interact in ways that a cared-for daughter wouldn't choose. Activities that used to be "special order" are increasingly common, the edge is pushed further. The industry relies on a consistant influx of (mostly girls) who meet exaggerated standards of appearance (and get surgery to get there) and have very poor personal boundaries. And the whole process degrades rapidly. Even strippers often find self-medicating essential to job performance. Hookers almost always. You need to be kind of emotionally distanced from your reality when your reality involves intimate contact with a series of unwashed strangers. The emphasis on testing prostitutes for social diseases makes me laugh. It's the johns who need regulation. The thing is, just as most woman don't sell eggs and breastmilk, and most men don't sell sperm (despite it being a highly renewable resource), selling intimacy or at least access is a 'choice' made from some really shaky origins. It's intrinsically abusive. And that doesn't even address this 'youth' issue, which horrifies me.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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07-31-2007, 09:49 AM | #6 | |||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May Last edited by sisterandcousinandaunt : 07-31-2007 at 09:50 AM. |
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07-31-2007, 10:26 AM | #7 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
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Coercing people into making porn is, or ought to be, illegal already. I've no doubt that there will always be a demand for this stuff, that it does have those associations, and that bad things happen in the course and as a result of its making. I also believe that it segues rather seamlessly into mainstream popular entertainment such as music and advertising. However, compared with 10 years ago, porn is massively more available, yet we haven't seen a massive increase in sexual crime. |
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07-31-2007, 12:00 PM | #8 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I think the impact of porn on young men has been to decrease their ability to make sincere individual connections with women. I think the impact of porn on young women has been to increase their reliance on physical attributes as valuable (or in too many cases, not valuable) which has increased depression and anxiety, as well as things like eating disorders. I think it has added to a materialistic culture that is essentially valueless, which, in turn, increases the susceptibility of the population to simplistic demagogues, of various ideologies. And it extends further into childhood by way of popular culture, hurting our kids younger every year. Find jeans that cover the belly button of a 4 year old girl in a store near you. But the damage to the participants is not occasional, or incidental. It is endemic to the process.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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07-31-2007, 12:11 PM | #9 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
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Well, if you are saying that there is a media-led conspiracy to keep us homogenous, stupid and consumptive, you won't get any arguments from me. But the problem is the attitude, not the porn itself.
Of course, porn very clearly reflects many of these attitudes. Though if you look a bit deeper, you can find all sorts of porn for all sorts of tastes. This is different from advertising, where all women are, almost without exception, good looking and thin. I would argue that porn has less of an effect on this than MTV or the fascion industry. Discuss. |
07-31-2007, 02:03 PM | #10 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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I think that MTV is less of a trend leader than it used to be. The bouncing spacewalker was cutting edge, now media is dispersed across the internet, where porn is a more established industry. Its commonness influences the esthetic for everyone.
Niche porn has always been available where porn was. That hasn't changed, and it doesn't serve to expand the general definitions of "beauty." Lactation activists, for example, don't thank the distributors of breastfeeding porn for their support. Sexualizing different styles or areas doesn't make more people safe, quite the reverse. The assumed availability of women that's sponsored by pornography leads to many difficult situations for people (and there are many) who aren't able to understand that porn is fantasy, and not documentary.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
07-31-2007, 02:24 PM | #11 | ||||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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07-31-2007, 02:28 PM | #12 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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07-31-2007, 02:56 PM | #13 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
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here's another http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/rrbrethinking.htm Female (at least) prostitution in this country does not significantly increase sexually transmitted diseases, but drug use does. Legalizing prostitution might improve conditions, but I doubt it. Counties with sexual tourism and legalized prostitution have bigger human rights problems than we do. Human trafficking. Ain't nice. Quote:
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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07-31-2007, 03:25 PM | #14 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I am imagining a better world. I believe in imagining a better world, it's just a waste of time if it's a world that's so much better it will never happen.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
07-31-2007, 03:55 PM | #15 | ||
Elven Maiden
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,309
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Can porn be unhealthy emotionally and dangerous physically? Yes. But you can't make something illegal because of that alone. Might it help protect society? Maybe yes, maybe no. But I'm concerned about the sort of society that sort of thing could lead to. I'll give a couple examples.
There are already efforts to make violent video games illegal or difficult to purchase. They can lead to emotional and physical problems, sure. Do I know anyone who has suffered from it? No, and I hang out with almost exclusively gamers. But hey, there could be, you know, dropping out of school for playing WoW. That happens. So let's make all video games illegal. Right? And how about those cookies? Kids under the age of say, 16 shouldn't be able to buy them. They are contributing to the obesity epidemic in this country, and they teach kids poor methods of dealing with emotional issues as well. And don't get me started on ice cream! Illegalizing cookies may seem a little ridiculous, but that's the sort of direction you seem to be pushing society toward. More and more restrictions only lead to just that- more restrictions. I think if we want to build a better society we need to change as people. No, not to forcibly change people, but to change ourselves from the inside. Quote:
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I vote not for more restrictions, but on more real education. |
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07-31-2007, 04:20 PM | #16 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I have directions I push society. But here I just discuss. Quote:
here's another http://www.walnet.org/csis/groups/sw...tohistory.html
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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07-31-2007, 04:31 PM | #17 | ||
Elven Maiden
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07-31-2007, 04:49 PM | #18 | |||
Elf Lord
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That's not to say that I'm against sexual activity, or discussion of sexual activity, or such-like. It's just that you have to deal with what is. Cocaine, as a substance, may be swell. As an industry, it's murderous, and in the community, it's devastating, and that has to be a factor. Now, we'd like to think they're just fun girls expressing themselves. We'd like to think that Linda Lovelace really DID enjoy herself in her filmed activity so much that everything that happened on film...well, so much fun they hated to take a check for it. It's just that the evidence doesn't support that.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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07-31-2007, 08:04 PM | #19 | ||
Elven Maiden
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08-01-2007, 12:13 AM | #20 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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