08-08-2006, 03:17 PM | #1 |
Captain Jack
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: High Charity
Posts: 598
|
gandalf or the witch king
sorry guys i dont know if this ones been brought up before but who would win if those two actually had a show down in the book gandalf was not sure if he could beat the witch king but all the same he was going to chase him out onto pellanor fields before he had to go save faramier so who would win ????
__________________
Captain Jack Sparrow: When you marooned me on that god forsaken spit of land, you forgot one very important thing, mate: I’m Captain Jack Sparrow. Cortana: So have you got a plan to get out? Master Chief: I was gonna shoot my way out. Mix things up a little. |
08-08-2006, 03:21 PM | #2 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
probally gandaf, as he's the more powerful, wepons-can't-hurt-me-now miar, rarther then the bound-to-a-ring nazgul.
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
08-08-2006, 03:49 PM | #3 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 421
|
Gandalf the Grey kicked around all the the nazguls at the Wheatertop; though both Gandalf and the wiki are enhanced at the time of the Pellenor fields, my bet is on the white rider - all the way.
|
08-08-2006, 05:19 PM | #4 | |||
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
|
Quote:
See also here: Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
08-08-2006, 06:20 PM | #5 | |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: College!
Posts: 1,976
|
Quote:
__________________
Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
|
08-08-2006, 07:15 PM | #6 | |||||
Salt Miner
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: gone to Far Harad
Posts: 987
|
Gandalf the Grey who battled the Balrog in Moria is not the same as Gandalf the White who faced the Witch-king at the broken Gate of Minas Tirith.
From Letter 156: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||
08-08-2006, 08:59 PM | #7 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
Quote:
I'm fairly certain that Tolkien wrote somewhere in the Letters that Gandalf's power was roughly equivalent to all Nine Riders, so that unless the Eight were just pansies who went around saying 'Boo!', he was probably significantly more powerful than the Witch-king. If I find it, I'll let you know.
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
|
08-09-2006, 02:12 AM | #8 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 421
|
It is also mentioned in the appendix that the wiki feared Boromir I. Moreover, the original istari are said to be "mighty, peers of Sauron" - cf the The Istari, Unfinnished Tales; and in the letter #210 it is stated that the nazgul "have no great physical power against the fearless", among which I would firstly qualify Gandalf.
|
08-09-2006, 05:41 AM | #9 | ||||
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
|
Curubethion: about emphasis on the quote. I see it differently:
Quote:
But, as the LoTR stands now, we have NO explanation why the WK is so much more powerful than the others. They were all Men, after all, and if we suppose that the WK used to be a High Numenorean Lord, then there were two other Numenorean lords among the Nine as well. So, why? Actually in an old thread I have dig it further, using HOME material. http://www.entmoot.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=Istari Originally when this part of the Book was written, the WK had been a wizard, "the mightiest of wizards of Men" and the former head of Gandalf's order who turned evil long ago. Later Tolkien changed his mind about the Wizards, making them Maiar, not Men, so this way the Witch-King lost his identity and background and never got a new one. But most of the references to his superior power remained in the book - so yes, now it is sort of a plothole. Quote:
As for Boromir I, the WK was apprehensive of his military skills as a captain of Gondor, but he didn't flee from him, he simply eliminated the man. Don't forget, Boromit got stabbed with a Morgul knife, which meant hand-to hand combat with a nazgul. see also here: http://www.entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=12153 Quote:
Quote:
But consider also that the WK was somehow boosted in power by Sauron just for the occasion. The thing is, IMO, that any of the opponents could well evaluate the power of the other, but still both were going to take their chances. Also, the more powerful doesn't necessarily win. A bloated spider of unknown origin almost killed the mightiest of the Valar, Morgoth. A mere Elf wounded him sorely and he knew fear... An Elven-Maia girl and a Man helped by a dog defeated Gorthaur and later stole a Silmaril from Morgoth. A mere Elf killed the mightiest of the Barlogs, Gothmog. And so on, not forgetting a hobbit defeating the dreaded Shelob. Of course, all the winners were good guys... so probably the WK wouldn't be granted this sort of luck. Now, I think, as the story stands now, Gandalf the White would have defeated the WK but it wouldn't have been an easy victory by any means. Also, Tolkien never considered them actually fighting. There is not a single draft for the fight. The WK was meant to be killed by a woman and a hobbit from the start - it was his Fate. |
||||
08-09-2006, 07:08 AM | #10 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
But like you said, surely Gandalf could've fought the wk, and won because the proficy didn't affect him. Also, in most of those battles, the heros also got killed. And you can't kill a miar or a valar, because they're totally imortal.
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
08-09-2006, 12:51 PM | #11 | |||||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 421
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||
08-09-2006, 03:09 PM | #12 | |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
Quote:
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
|
08-09-2006, 03:25 PM | #13 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 421
|
I can't answer that; here is the passage I had in mind:
Quote:
|
|
08-09-2006, 03:29 PM | #14 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
ok, cool.
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
08-09-2006, 10:42 PM | #15 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18
|
I believe every one has written some truth to this make believe bought between the Witch King & Olorin. I liked what Alcuin says about Gandalf being something new and different after his battle in Moria. I do remember reading about Gandalf saying (I will paraphraze), "I have forgotten much of what I once knew and now I remember much of what I've once forgotten". It's as if Gandalf is saying he's fresh from Valinor again, reinvigorated.
Gandalf the White would have won (he would not let fear get in his way, especially now), but it would have not been an easy bought. Gandalf would have taken the WK in the sixth round. |
08-10-2006, 11:15 AM | #16 | |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
Quote:
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
|
08-10-2006, 11:17 AM | #17 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
|
I think the fight between Gandalf and the witch king would have been over swiftly, with Gandalf getting the win.
Eowyn killed the WK in single combat with her sword when the spell on the flesh of the WK was broken by the blade of Meriadoc; she killed him with one blow. You really think it would take more than that for Gandalf to defeat the WK with glamdring. Even if we were talking about Gandalf the grey and not Gandalf the white, I think the WK would have been ripped to shreds.
__________________
Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; Last edited by The Telcontarion : 08-10-2006 at 11:18 AM. |
08-10-2006, 11:26 AM | #18 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
Exactly the point.....she struck him down after he lost he defences. I think it would be a different matter if she'd done that before Merry struck with his blade. Same with the fight with him and gandalf. It would take a lot to take him down, because gandalf didn't have the necessary wepon to take him down, as discussed here (despite what people say in the beginning, we do get to what wepons could've taken down the witch ling - eventually).
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
What All Was Wrong with PJ's LOTR | Wally | Lord of the Rings Movies | 425 | 08-14-2016 08:43 AM |
Visitors Come to Court | Valandil | Writer's Workshop | 56 | 01-27-2010 11:29 AM |
LOTR Discussion Project: Book V, Chapter 4: The Siege of Gondor | Beren3000 | LOTR Discussion Project | 31 | 02-09-2006 02:46 AM |
LotR Discussion Project: The Two Towers--Book III, Chapter V: The White Rider | mithrand1r | LOTR Discussion Project | 14 | 10-25-2005 09:55 AM |
(EE) Witch King vs. Gandalf | The Wizard from Milan | Lord of the Rings Movies | 34 | 05-20-2005 07:46 PM |