HP and the Sorcerer's Stone

***Rían*** · 02-07-2005, 08:16 PM

Hey, I finally got around to reading HP and the SS and watching the movie. The book was very funny and interesting, and I liked the movie, too. I"m looking forward to reading the next book now - which one is it?

I felt it didn't have the depth that LOTR and Narnia has, but it was certainly well-written and fun!

And what's the general feeling for HP fans about the movies?

Lizra · 02-07-2005, 08:43 PM

Keep reading!

I thought HP had a lot more depth than Narnia.....Inked??? (never more than LoTR though!)

The second one is the one with Gilderoy Lockheart...I'm having a *semi-senior moment* and can't remember the title....

**Nurvingiel** · 02-07-2005, 08:56 PM

Just to jump in... I am baffled by there being American versions of "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone". This book was written in English. Most Americans speak and read English. Why the translation (and I use the word loosely here)?

The Philosopher's Stone is part of a legend, and the object sought by alchemists to turn lead into gold, and to achieve immortality.

The Sorcerer's Stone... has no meaning at all. JK Rowling chose the title with Philosopher's Stone for a reason.

Further, Americans are not stupid and I think this myth should be disspelled. Americans are perfectly capable of figuring out that the jumpers that Ron and Harry got for Christmas are what us North Americans call sweaters, etc.

***Rían*** · 02-07-2005, 09:26 PM

I think there's just a few changes - some majorly Brit slang that we Yanks wouldn't understand, that's all (at least those Americans that don't hang out on international boards like Entmoot!)

Is there a list of changes anywhere? That would be interesting to see!

Lizra - "semi-senior moment" - LOL! My sister-in-law called me yesterday and said, "I'm sorry, I think I forgot to call you and wish you happy birthday a few weeks ago!" I said, "That's one of the good things about being old - I don't remember you not calling!"

sirigorn · 02-07-2005, 10:07 PM

The next one is Chamber of Secrets.

They get better and more in depth as you go along.

I agree, it was stupid to change it. Okay, some of the changes we might think are funny- for example, jumpers, or I was reading the British version of PoA and Harry's reading under the bed with a torch (flashlight) which would get the bed on fire if it was an American torch, but I mean, seriously. We're not complete idiots. There are plenty of non-"translated" books we read, and it's fine. *sigh*

PippinTook · 02-07-2005, 10:27 PM

Yeah, I feel a little jipped at getting the Socerer's stone instead of the Philosopher's stone! Actually...now that I think about it, I've never read the american version! We took a trip to england and mom left our copy of SS (which I hadnt read at the time) so she bought PS over there, and thats when I read it. Heh, thats kinda funny. There's no major differences, but I still dont get why they changed the name itself...Sorcerer and Philosopher arent even synonyms.

sun-star · 02-08-2005, 05:18 AM

List of UK/US changes:www.hp-lexicon.org

I agree with sirigorn that the books get deeper as they go on. The third one is many people's favourite because then you start to get a sense of the backstory and the completeness of this world.

**Nurvingiel** · 02-08-2005, 08:03 AM

I see your point Ri, but I still think you would recognize the words in context. (That was the only way I figured out "jumper".) Some word changes are pointless - I should think it's completely obvious that a motorbike is a motorcycle.

Also, some changes diminish the humour of the book. For quite a long time I had no idea what "sellotape" was. When I figured it out (courtesy of going to England), I laughed out loud, because of course, Spell-o-tape is a hilarious take on the word. Changing it to scotch tape in the American version takes away all chance of this hilarious moment.

inked · 02-08-2005, 12:46 PM

Rian,
Definitely read the Chamber of Secrets! If you have cheated (or lurked) on the Christian Themes in HP thread you can see the increasing depth.

I am amused that Lizra thinks them deeper than Narnia. My contention is that they are the same wavelength! But then again, I think Tolkien is pretty deep.

And I am constantly being challenged and accused of importing Christianity into these things when really all I am doing is exhibiting it in the works. (Does that make me an exhibitionist? Do I get to have my own showing in prestigious galleries? Am I ready for this?

)

As to the word changes, I deplore them. But do remember that contextualization is a process that works for folks with enough experience in reading and social functioning to make. As regards Brit slang, I think the translation is good for the younger readers. The standard comparisons between Brit and American usages for each book are at www.hp-lexicon.org if you care to see them in table format. The egregrious error of substituting sorceror's for philosophers could have been avoided - but you know American marketing geniuses, ... so what sould be expected?

sun-star · 02-08-2005, 02:36 PM

Not to get too far off topic... but if Americans call bobble hats bonnets, what do you call bonnets (like women wore in the 19th century)?

Lizra · 02-08-2005, 04:04 PM

Glad to amuse you Inked....

I find the character development in HPs to be more fullfilling than the Narnia's ...but it's been quite awhile since I've read any of those beside LWW.

***Rían*** · 02-08-2005, 05:29 PM

I don't think they should have made an American version. Too much dumbing down! We can figure it out!

OK, next trip to the library, I'll snag the next in the series.

Let me try to explain the Narnia thing more - IMO, Narnia was written for younger children, and is less complex and deep in that respect. However, I think the themes in Narnia are deeper, if that makes sense, altho they're written in younger kids' language. HP is more "mature"ly written, for an older audience, but I don't think the underlying themes are as deep. But I"ll keep reading - the first one was sure fun!

Pytt · 02-08-2005, 05:40 PM

The Norwegian author who translated the books, were one of few who got to rename some of the creatures and characters. Like Quidditch has become: 'Rumpeldunk', and the Snitch has become: 'Snoppen' who also is a slang for penis...

So reading the books is ceartainly more amusing, but it's kind of stupid. But I have begun reading them on english now.

And they get deeper and more exiting by each book. Read on!

inked · 02-15-2005, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizra

Glad to amuse you Inked....

I find the character development in HPs to be more fullfilling than the Narnia's ...but it's been quite awhile since I've read any of those beside LWW.

SWING - SWING - CHA _CHA _CHA! Lizra

I think the character development is one of HP's strong points as well. It makes me recollect those far-off days of yesteryear and some of the mental and emotional awakenings. JKR has them spot on as I experience her story.

But given the POV she has adopted in the books, we see Harry's personal development and his experience of the others and his evaluation of their positions. So Harry is the source and arbiter of our observations and we should be reacting to his perceptions (as adults anyway) as "I wonder if Harry's realized or thought about..."? because life is so much more complex than Harry has realized.

Minielin · 02-16-2005, 07:02 PM

They actually changed "mummy" to "mommy"?! How stupid do they think we are?

**Nurvingiel** · 02-16-2005, 08:49 PM

I think they just Americanized all the spelling - I imagine "colour" was written "color" etc.

What is a bobble-hat sun-star?

(We, and Americans probably, call 19th century ladies hats bonnets.)

sun-star · 02-17-2005, 05:01 AM

A hat with a bobble on it. Like so.

This is what Dudley's supposed to be wearing in the scene where (I think) the change was made. Is that what they'd call a bonnet in the US?

**Nurvingiel** · 02-17-2005, 09:27 AM

Americans call that a bonnet?

(I thought you called it a hat.) Canadians call that a toque. I'm trying to corrupt my international friends.

inked · 02-17-2005, 12:53 PM

In South Carolina it's called a "tobogan" like the olympic event with sleds!

***azalea*** · 02-17-2005, 09:50 PM

I think most of us just call it a knit cap, and the thing on top is called a pom-pon. A bonnet is usually the type of hat that women wore in the 17 and 1800s (a Holly Hobbie hat); sometimes an antiquated word for any woman's hat (in the early 20th century).

02-07-2005, 08:16 PM	#1
*Rían* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	HP and the Sorcerer's Stone Hey, I finally got around to reading HP and the SS and watching the movie. The book was very funny and interesting, and I liked the movie, too. I"m looking forward to reading the next book now - which one is it? I felt it didn't have the depth that LOTR and Narnia has, but it was certainly well-written and fun! And what's the general feeling for HP fans about the movies? __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!

02-07-2005, 08:43 PM	#2
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Keep reading! I thought HP had a lot more depth than Narnia.....Inked??? (never more than LoTR though!) The second one is the one with Gilderoy Lockheart...I'm having a semi-senior moment and can't remember the title.... __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

02-07-2005, 09:26 PM	#4
*Rían* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	I think there's just a few changes - some majorly Brit slang that we Yanks wouldn't understand, that's all (at least those Americans that don't hang out on international boards like Entmoot!) Is there a list of changes anywhere? That would be interesting to see! Lizra - "semi-senior moment" - LOL! My sister-in-law called me yesterday and said, "I'm sorry, I think I forgot to call you and wish you happy birthday a few weeks ago!" I said, "That's one of the good things about being old - I don't remember you not calling!" __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!

02-07-2005, 10:07 PM	#5
sirigorn Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: who wants to know? looks around suspiciously Posts: 497	The next one is Chamber of Secrets. They get better and more in depth as you go along. I agree, it was stupid to change it. Okay, some of the changes we might think are funny- for example, jumpers, or I was reading the British version of PoA and Harry's reading under the bed with a torch (flashlight) which would get the bed on fire if it was an American torch, but I mean, seriously. We're not complete idiots. There are plenty of non-"translated" books we read, and it's fine. sigh __________________ Gimli: It was already dead Legolas: It was twitching! Gimli: It was twitching...because it's got my axe embeded in it's nervous system!! -Two Towers extended DVD I'm wearing black for Black. Well, then, I confess, it is my intention to commandeer one of these ships, pick up a crew in Tortuga, raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out!~Captain Jack Sparrow, Pirates of the Caribbean

02-07-2005, 10:27 PM	#6
PippinTook The Infamous Tea Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Riding my Attack Llama, CORY! Posts: 1,162	Yeah, I feel a little jipped at getting the Socerer's stone instead of the Philosopher's stone! Actually...now that I think about it, I've never read the american version! We took a trip to england and mom left our copy of SS (which I hadnt read at the time) so she bought PS over there, and thats when I read it. Heh, thats kinda funny. There's no major differences, but I still dont get why they changed the name itself...Sorcerer and Philosopher arent even synonyms. __________________ http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/shanakdakhete/svbf.gif If I can stop one heart from aching, I shall not live in vain. -Emily Dickinson But the Master comes, and the foolish crowd Never can quite understand The worth of a soul and the change that is wrought By the touch of the Master's hand. Though she be but little, she is fierce! -MSND

02-08-2005, 05:18 AM	#7
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	List of UK/US changes:www.hp-lexicon.org I agree with sirigorn that the books get deeper as they go on. The third one is many people's favourite because then you start to get a sense of the backstory and the completeness of this world. __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

02-08-2005, 12:46 PM	#9
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Rian, Definitely read the Chamber of Secrets! If you have cheated (or lurked) on the Christian Themes in HP thread you can see the increasing depth. I am amused that Lizra thinks them deeper than Narnia. My contention is that they are the same wavelength! But then again, I think Tolkien is pretty deep. And I am constantly being challenged and accused of importing Christianity into these things when really all I am doing is exhibiting it in the works. (Does that make me an exhibitionist? Do I get to have my own showing in prestigious galleries? Am I ready for this? ) As to the word changes, I deplore them. But do remember that contextualization is a process that works for folks with enough experience in reading and social functioning to make. As regards Brit slang, I think the translation is good for the younger readers. The standard comparisons between Brit and American usages for each book are at www.hp-lexicon.org if you care to see them in table format. The egregrious error of substituting sorceror's for philosophers could have been avoided - but you know American marketing geniuses, ... so what sould be expected? __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

02-08-2005, 02:36 PM	#10
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	Not to get too far off topic... but if Americans call bobble hats bonnets, what do you call bonnets (like women wore in the 19th century)? __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

02-08-2005, 04:04 PM	#11
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Glad to amuse you Inked.... I find the character development in HPs to be more fullfilling than the Narnia's ...but it's been quite awhile since I've read any of those beside LWW. __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

02-08-2005, 05:29 PM	#12
*Rían* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	I don't think they should have made an American version. Too much dumbing down! We can figure it out! OK, next trip to the library, I'll snag the next in the series. Let me try to explain the Narnia thing more - IMO, Narnia was written for younger children, and is less complex and deep in that respect. However, I think the themes in Narnia are deeper, if that makes sense, altho they're written in younger kids' language. HP is more "mature"ly written, for an older audience, but I don't think the underlying themes are as deep. But I"ll keep reading - the first one was sure fun! __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!

02-08-2005, 05:40 PM	#13
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	The Norwegian author who translated the books, were one of few who got to rename some of the creatures and characters. Like Quidditch has become: 'Rumpeldunk', and the Snitch has become: 'Snoppen' who also is a slang for penis... So reading the books is ceartainly more amusing, but it's kind of stupid. But I have begun reading them on english now. And they get deeper and more exiting by each book. Read on! __________________ Don't Panic!

02-16-2005, 07:02 PM	#15
Minielin Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: I dwell in possibility. Posts: 247	They actually changed "mummy" to "mommy"?! How stupid do they think we are? __________________ "...then how shall I Revive the dying tones of minstrelsy, Which linger yet about lone gothic arches, In dark green ivy, and among wild larches?" Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum.

02-17-2005, 05:01 AM	#17
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	A hat with a bobble on it. Like so. This is what Dudley's supposed to be wearing in the scene where (I think) the change was made. Is that what they'd call a bonnet in the US? __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

02-17-2005, 12:53 PM	#19
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	In South Carolina it's called a "tobogan" like the olympic event with sleds! __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

02-17-2005, 09:50 PM	#20
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I think most of us just call it a knit cap, and the thing on top is called a pom-pon. A bonnet is usually the type of hat that women wore in the 17 and 1800s (a Holly Hobbie hat); sometimes an antiquated word for any woman's hat (in the early 20th century).