01-18-2004, 12:47 AM | #1 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
The United Nations
This is a thread to discuss the United Nations. (There is already a thread for Model UN if you want to talk about that.)
Do you support the UN? Pose and answer any questions about it that you want. Personally, I do support the UN, but I wish it was actually useful, and a force for good in the world. In the The Official US President Election Thread, JD and I got a bit off topic and started talking about the UN. Obviously, this topic needs a thread of its own. Everyone's thoughts are appreciated.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Nurvingiel : 01-18-2004 at 12:49 AM. |
||
01-18-2004, 12:52 AM | #2 | ||||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
This is my last UN post from the "Election" thread:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
01-18-2004, 12:56 AM | #3 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
This what I last said in that thread regarding this..,
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
01-18-2004, 01:00 AM | #4 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
Maybe what I really support is what they could be, and the ideas behind their original formation. I think with effort of some of the key nations, starting with kicking out human rights abusing countries, the UN could be a great thing. I also think we need some kind of world organization to assist with the distribution of wealth more fairly around the world.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
01-18-2004, 01:14 AM | #5 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Iraq went on and on about how the US was the big bully - as they were killing millions of people. Over 2 million people have been found in mass graves in Iraq. But people still scream - well where are the WMD? Quote:
Quote:
That money could be used within NJ to make things better here. New Jerseyans are the ones working for it and sarcificing for it - not to mention that we have a higher cost of living here than those other states that get money.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|||
01-18-2004, 01:34 AM | #6 |
High King of Númenórë
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Númenórë <--United States of America
Posts: 1,947
|
whoops
__________________
'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
01-18-2004, 01:36 AM | #7 |
High King of Númenórë
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Númenórë <--United States of America
Posts: 1,947
|
[edited] Probably not appropriate. -- Khamûl
That pretty much sums up what I think of the UN
__________________
'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
01-18-2004, 01:37 AM | #8 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-18-2004 at 01:38 AM. |
|
01-18-2004, 01:39 AM | #9 | |
High King of Númenórë
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Númenórë <--United States of America
Posts: 1,947
|
Quote:
what happened to the quote? It totally cut off the dude peeing on the UN!! lol *edit* nvm it's fixed now
__________________
'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
|
01-18-2004, 01:47 AM | #10 | ||||||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What I meant about the redistribution of wealth is an idea I hope the (improved and useful) UN would explore. I have no idea how it would be accomplished, because it is extremely complicated, but this is what I meant: Natural resources are not fairly distributed worldwide. This includes fresh water, timber, arable land, etc. Not only do some areas of the world have more natural resources than others, but some countries consume resources from other nations in addition to their own. For example, in Brazil, all the good farmland is owned by forgein corporations. Brazillian farmers are left with poor, margianalized land. They are eventually forced to cut down parts of the rainforest in order to maintain their levels or crop production. These are small, individually owned farms. However, many farmers cutting down the rainforst adds up quickly, especially since rainforests do not regenerate in any reasonable period of time. One idea I have to resolve this is that there is a limit to how much land you can own outside of your own country. There is at least one flaw in this idea: - How would land be transfered? In Brazil, the average farmer can't afford the best farmland. That's how the foreign companies came to own it in the first place. Something in addition to market-based economics would have to be employed.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||||||
01-18-2004, 01:49 AM | #11 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Dúnedain you are the biggest spammer! What about my ideas around an improved UN? Would you approve of them if they actually did something useful, and if all the human rights violators were kicked out?
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||
01-18-2004, 01:55 AM | #12 |
High King of Númenórë
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Númenórë <--United States of America
Posts: 1,947
|
That is so lame. I get edited for something so tame like that. Are we running an after school program here? jeez...I included a smiley face with it...
__________________
'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen Last edited by Dúnedain : 01-18-2004 at 01:58 AM. |
01-18-2004, 02:02 AM | #13 | |||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|||||
01-18-2004, 02:05 AM | #14 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Khamul it was too appropriate - a guy pissing on the UN - VERY appropriate.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
01-18-2004, 03:22 AM | #15 | ||||||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||||||
01-18-2004, 03:33 AM | #16 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|||
01-19-2004, 07:20 AM | #17 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
People are talking about the UN as if it is an entity in itself with malicious intent to protect dictators and scumbags worldwide. This seems to be going unchallenged, so let's think about it. (I'll leave aside the selective amnesia towards who propped up Saddam throughout the 80s, when he was busy gassing Kurds and Iranians)
Firstly, the UN consists of its members states. They vote. They don't (always/often) agree. So, often, the UN decides to do something which we don't like. Often, it decides to do NOTHING, which we don't like. The same is true of any form of government. If we have government, we have to put up with the possibility (indeed, the inevitability) that we are not going to agree with some of the things it does. This also means that the UN cannot do anything without the commitment of member states. To send in "UN" troops, it has to borrow them from member states' armies, which means that those states have to agree with the policy. Given that, what's surprising is that the UN ever manages to agree on anything. But does that mean we should just throw up our hands and say that there is no role for such an intergovernmental agency? The alternative would be rule by national self-interest. What this translates to, of course, is "might is right". Maybe that's OK, but it's not my idea of civilisation. And frankly, I find the assertion that third world poverty is all their own fault to be totally naive and rather shocking. |
01-19-2004, 07:59 AM | #18 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
You forgot though Gaffer that most of the MEMBER states don't even live up to the UN charter and have terrible human rights records and perform genocide on their own people. This is in complete conflict to what the UN charter says that all member states must live up to. So why are they allowed to be members? Why was Iraq allowed to be a member? Why was Iraq even voted to chair the Disarmament Committee - when it for 10 years didn't adhere to the disarmament resolutions of the UN? This is the organization that is looked upon with such fondness in Europe?
As for propping up Hussein - we supported him in the war against Iran - which the Soviet Union was supporting. It would have been disasterous for the region if Iran conquered Iraq. Anyway - this has been gone over and over again. You just want to ignore the facts of the 40's - 80's and the goal of the Soviet Union.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-19-2004 at 08:01 AM. |
01-19-2004, 12:28 PM | #19 | |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
|
I support the idea of the UN, but I don't agree with its current operation. I think it's important to have an international organisation of this kind and its aims are admirable, but there are certainly some problems with it in terms of who it accepts as members.
If we're drawing parallels with the League of Nations - it's interesting that it collapsed to a great extent because of the absence of the USA. If the UN is really so unpopular in the US now, that could be the cause rather than the result of perceived UN failure. Quote:
__________________
And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
|
01-20-2004, 11:34 AM | #20 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
|
Quote:
Since most of Iran's equipment was American, it was, ironically, Israel which supported the Ayatollahs with most of their supplies, supplemented by America during the Irangate deals; after that they bought what they could get from from China and North Korea. In fact, the USSR was seen as such a bulwark against Iran that Kuwait asked the both the Soviet and US Navies for protection from Iranian attacks on Gulf shipping. I've never heard anyone suggest that the USSR was backing Iran- interested to hear of anything supporting that view.
__________________
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Muslims | Sween | General Messages | 992 | 04-11-2006 11:04 AM |
NOT about Increased Islamic Influence in European Nations | Lief Erikson | General Messages | 92 | 01-07-2005 09:50 PM |
The Official US President Election Thread | Insidious Rex | General Messages | 896 | 11-05-2004 03:41 PM |
The Entmoot Presidential Debate | Darth Tater | Entmoot Archive | 163 | 12-06-2002 09:44 PM |