08-19-2004, 09:32 PM | #1 |
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The Lord of the Rings Discussion Ch 11 and 12
A Knife in the Dark and Flight to the Ford
These chapters have nearly everything, from Rangers to Trolls, Elves to Black Riders. While much of it is so suspenseful it puts you on the edge, there are also lighter moments with laughter amidst the peril. The only thing it may not have is romance, though we do get a hint of this with Strider’s ‘There [in Rivendell] my heart is’. The scene is set with a vivid account of the terror generated by the Black Riders’ attack at Crickhollow. We begin to understand the true might of these Dark servants of Mordor, and the danger they pose to the hobbits, especially Frodo. We also see how the search for the Ring begins to impact on life in the Shire. For the first time in a century, the Horn-call of Buckland is sounded. This reminds me of the earlier Hobbit history, with the battles between the Hobbits and Orcs and wolves. There is a hint of how else the daily lives of Hobbits will be changed by the power of Mordor. ‘Sauron would deal with them later’ the Black Riders think as they flee. The Hobbits are not entirely safe at Bree either, though. Their bedrooms, although not slept in, are ravaged and the stabled horses are gone. If I remember correctly, wasn’t there some discussion about who actually attacked, since Tolkien doesn’t explicitly state that it was Black Riders? The troupe has a new and invaluable addition, Bill the Pony. It makes me proud when Sam bids Bill Ferny to ‘put your ugly face out of sight, or it will get hurt’ and throws the apple at him. On they go, through the Midgewater Marshes and so forth, to Weathertop. We still fear for the hobbits, and Strider warns them of the many spies of Mordor. He mentions “other spies more evil than they [the birds] are”. Is he referring to other animals here, maybe wolves or other Dark creatures? Or something else? We also get a glimpse of the former might of the Men of the West, with their once magnificent structures now in ruins. Strider tells us some First Age history with the story of Lúthien and Beren. The power of the Ring is made evident by Frodo’s inability to resist putting it on. When he strikes at the Rider’s foot, he cries ‘O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!’. What makes him say those certain words? Though we can clearly see how detrimental the evil wound Frodo sustains is on him, we can also see how reluctant he is to let it show and how truly strong he is, especially as a Hobbit. Strider does his best to help alleviate Frodo’s pain and we see what kind of skills and talents he possesses for travelling in the wild, as a Ranger. Then another lightening moment comes when the hobbits stumble across some trolls. The image of Strider poking a troll (a stone one or not) is hilarious. The atmosphere of tension and fear is lessened with the reminder of Bilbo’s own adventure. And then we meet a beloved character of many a Mooter, Glorfindel. Through him we observe the healing powers and keen senses of the Elven race. I would have liked to seen more from him in the book. The chapters end with one of the best scenes, IMO, in LotR. “ By Elbereth and Lúthien the Fair…you shall have neither the Ring nor me!’” Is that not one of the best quotes? We feel a sense of awe for Frodo’s strength and his concern for his friends, when he is unwilling to mount Glorfindel’s horse, fearing that it would put his friends in danger. I have to quickly refer to the film here, because I know how angry many of us are at how PJ killed this scene in the movies, with his addition of that awful quote by Arwen, and his deletion of the display of strength of Frodo and Glorfindel. The imagery and suspense in this part is incredible, and we feel terrified for Frodo, especially since there’s no wonderful Arwen to protect him. Finally, we see that there are ‘good’ powers that may be stronger than that of the Dark Riders, with the flood’s onset. For the time being, we wonder who caused such a spectacular event. (Though, admittedly, we find out the answer very soon in the next chapter ). Before you read on, who do you think does it? Last edited by Linaewen : 08-20-2004 at 02:59 AM. |
08-19-2004, 09:33 PM | #2 |
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So that’s my “summary”. There was just so much I didn’t want to leave out in my beloved chapters. Some discussion points:
Fatty Bolger That’s the last we see of Fatty for a while, which I think is kind of a shame because I did like him. It was necessary to have someone remain at Crickhollow, but I think it would have been good if Tolkien included a bit more about him. Frodo’s Dreams Frodo dreams of the noise of wind and galloping hoofs just as the attack on Crickhollow is occurring. Where do these come from, and what is their purpose? The Moon The word ‘moon’ is used a number of times through the chapter. What is its significance? I notice on the third page of ‘A Knife in the Dark’ that Tolkien actually uses the words ‘the Moon’, which I found interesting because it makes Arda more like our own world, doesn’t it, with one Moon, considering Arda has a very different geographical structure to our own earth. Ferny’s ‘Squint-eyed companion’ At this point in time, we don’t know who he is, but who did you think he was at this stage? What did you think happened to him? Incidentally, while talking about Ferny, he calls Strider ‘Longshanks’. Why? Other senses “Senses, too, there are other than sight or smell”. What senses is Strider talking about? Feeling? Hearing? Or something else? Strider’s warnings Numerous times Strider warns the hobbits to not mention the name of the wraiths or other Mordor-related things, especially when they are so close by. Why is he so concerned about this, why does it endanger them? Glorfindel He mentions to Strider that when he came across the Riders, they withdrew from him. Combined (or even individually?), wouldn’t they have the power to take on the Elf Prince? If so, why withdraw? I was thinking that for the time being they were focused on attaining the Ring and so did not bother with fighting Glorfindel |
08-20-2004, 02:33 AM | #3 |
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Such a great coupla chapters! Thanks for the great summary, Lin! There is so much variety in these 2 chapters, as you said - it's amazing!
I just peeked in on the way to bed, so I'll post more tomorrow - I'll just make one comment : Glorfindel! *sigh*
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08-20-2004, 06:39 AM | #4 |
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wow very cool. Hey if you want to help out check out the LOTR Guide thread on this page. That was very good. I really enjoyed it.
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08-20-2004, 08:33 AM | #5 |
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Very well done, Linaewen,
When I read your summary, I realised how much of the hobbits' journey was covered in these two chapters!!! I will post some maps and comments on the weekend.
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08-20-2004, 11:53 AM | #6 |
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Great job, Linaewen! Thanks for your effort.
Here are my thoughts: -Frodo's dreams: I don't know about the dreams he had in Bombadil's house, but I think that this particular dream came to him because he was carrying the Ring and in that way he was somehow aware of the Nazgul and what they did. But that sounds a bit farfetched to me -The squint-eyed man: As far as I recall, my first impression of him was that he was a spy of Mordor; a resident of Bree somehow corrupted or coerced into spying on the lands around the Shire. Even after having watched the FOTR movie before reading the book and knowing how Saruman was evil, I never thought that this man could be Saruman's spy. -Strider's warnings: I don't understand this myself, however it appears to be a popular theme in fantasy stories with religious parallels. In The Wheel of Time, it is said that if you said the Dark One's true name (Shai'tan), you brought his attention upon you and all kinds of trouble and misfortune would follow. Thanks again for writing this, Lin. |
08-20-2004, 12:34 PM | #7 |
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great job!
these chapters remind me of a somewhat minor point which always bothered me in the movie/book comparisons... both LoTR movies (pj and bakshi) show the black riders (five, if i remember right) entering the hobbits' room and attempting to kill them... dramatic, but far from what the text seems to imply... first of all, two of the five were in buckland at the time... and of the remaining three, only two were actually seen in bree... and seen conspiring near ferney's place which makes me think that maybe it wasn't the black riders who sacked the hobbit's former room at all, but some of their local associates i seem to remember this being somewhat addressed in one of the HoME books, but i'm not sure
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08-20-2004, 12:43 PM | #8 | |
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08-20-2004, 01:19 PM | #9 | ||
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Woo-hoo! On we go. Very nicely done, Lin
Where to start? Quote:
But that's a great part, where the Moon is just starting to climb over the lip of the dell, and they spot a silhouetted rider *Gaffer changes his trousers* The Moon is a powerful touchstone throughout. I'm thinking here of the earlier chapters' walks at night, the Window on the West, even the thrush episode in the Hobbit on Durin's Day *(when the moon was in rising just as the sun was setting), and, at the risk of getting too far ahead, the wonderful description of Minas Morgul: Quote:
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08-20-2004, 06:13 PM | #10 |
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There's also a reference to the Big Dipper - I love the stars
There's a reference to the squint-eyed Southerner in UT (Unfinished Tales) - he was captured by the Black Riders and saved his skin by becoming their spy. (from "The Hunt for the Ring"). I can't find any reference to the Black Riders sacking the Inn, tho - interesting question!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-20-2004, 07:13 PM | #11 | |
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Very good job, Lin. Thank you for the nice intro
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08-20-2004, 10:56 PM | #12 | ||
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Thanks for the lovely comments guys, hope I've done a good enough job.
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Expanding on your theory, maybe he had the dreams about that particular event because it created so much fear (on the Hobbits' part) and frustration (on the Nazguls' part). The heightened emotion made him more privy to their movements? Then again, I could just be making up complete rubbish here. :embarassed: Quote:
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08-21-2004, 01:21 AM | #13 | |
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Lovely Lin!
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08-21-2004, 01:25 AM | #14 | ||
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Arty, would you care to elaborate your theory or at least refer me to the thread you advanced it in? Quote:
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08-21-2004, 02:13 AM | #15 | ||
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08-21-2004, 07:21 AM | #16 |
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Its is implied (at Bree: something like " 'They are terrible!' ...memory of recent pain") his that Aragon has had a recent unsuccesful encounter with the Nazgul, liekly the one in the appedix where a GROUP of rangers is beaten and driven off for the sarn ford. But here were have his driving off five of them with samll help from the hobbits. He seems to have gain some experence and stengh from his first encounter.
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08-21-2004, 11:06 AM | #17 |
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yeah Aragorn has probably faced them before and it defiantely helped him out when he tried to get the Hobbits to Rivendell.
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08-21-2004, 04:12 PM | #18 | ||
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08-21-2004, 10:22 PM | #19 | |
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Gandalf fought with them with “such light and flame that cannot have been seen…since the war-beacons of old” and, yet, he lost them only by “escaping”. |
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08-22-2004, 02:18 AM | #20 |
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Wasn't it the steeds of the Nazgûl that feared the fire, and so were driven in a panic into the river?
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